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Hello, Welcome everyone to
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energy lousy UCLA podcast.
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Today we have Dr.
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Rajiv Gandhi and from
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Michigan State University.
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He is an assistant
professor in
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the Department of
Linguistics and
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languages and cultures at
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Michigan State
University since 2015.
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At MSU, Dr. engine is
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associated with the
Asian Studies Program,
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Master of Arts in
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foreign language
teaching program
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and Second Language
Studies Program.
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He received his PhD in
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second language
acquisition in 2016.
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His dissertation title
was acquisition of
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aggregative case
by L2 learners.
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Dr. Engines
primary area of
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research as generative
approach to SLE.
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He has created an online
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open education
resource textbook
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for basic in the 1 and
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is currently
working on basic.
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We'll do one.
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Welcome, Dr. engine.
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Thank you.
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In this podcast,
we're going to cover
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role and importance of
grandma for adjuncts.
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Teaching grammar with
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the current pedagogical
approaches,
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teaching grammar
deductively, inductively,
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implicitly and explicitly,
and challenges
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of teaching grammar to
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heritage language
learners,
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which we are going
to refer as HLS.
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A few suggestions
and recommendations.
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Some of the
discussion with you,
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Dr. origin, Y is Gromit
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instruction important for
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hitters languished
journals.
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So thank you, Javier.
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It's a wonderful
opportunity to talk to you.
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And I'll just jump
on the topic.
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The grammar is really
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important for heritage
language learners
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because if we look at
Gabriel next page,
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we're about Haiti
language learners.
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We can divide the heat is
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language learners in four
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different categories.
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However, the one category
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that are still
very familiar with
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the target language that
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associated hated
language learner.
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That's the quoted or CPC.
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Kind of defined that way.
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Even for them, it
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is important
because typically
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when we teach aided
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language learners
in a classroom,
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they have vocabulary
and even culture.
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They still do not make
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a longer sentences or
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a paragraph
level sentences
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because of the lack of
linguistic competence.
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So that's why I think
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it is really important for
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heritage language
learners to learn
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grammar and
even it's live.
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And colleagues also stated
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very explicitly in
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their research paper,
and I'm quoting them.
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Quote, educators
recognize the value of
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engaging learners in
critical analysis
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of existing
Bilingual Practices,
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an unbalance is
inherent, hey,
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inherent in bilingual
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or plural lingual
competencies
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through authentic and
meaningful tasks.
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At the same time,
it is puzzling that
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despite the use of
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authentic and
meaningful task,
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SLL heritage
language learners
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often seem to be
unable to move
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beyond the
intermediate level of
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language proficiency
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as measured by the act for
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proficiency guidelines
scale and a
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struggle to express
the complexity and
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nuances of their
rich identities
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in their home
language, unquote.
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So what that mean is,
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up to the
intermediate level.
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The hated language
learners can make
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the sentences and those
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are very interpretable
features there.
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They can use that.
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But when they
move forward,
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they want to be
really accurate
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than it without
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the remanence
trucks and hit is
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even hate his language
learners who struggle.
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And at the advanced level,
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we do need a little bit of
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more accuracy compared
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to an intermediate level.
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And hence, I think
grammar instruction is
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really important for
language learners
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or hated language
learners.
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That's wonderful.
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So is there an
empirical study
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that supports the need
of grammar instruction
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for Alto who had
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language learners or
for any other language?
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Yes, there, there are
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many empirical studies
that look at the,
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the role of grammar
to teach and an,
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a heritage language
proficiency development.
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Just to mention a
couple of them on
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programmable
bolus in 2008,
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they conducted the study
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and what they were
looking at is the use
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of data by L2 or L1 or L2
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language learners or
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non-native
language learners
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and hate his
language learners.
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And what they found
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that the metalinguistic
discussion,
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metalinguistic discussion
is the discus and
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when you talk about the
grammar or language.
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So that's metalinguistic
discussion,
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feedback and
targeted practice
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have both of them,
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both up the group
L2 learners
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and hated language
learners.
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Even Petrovsky et al,
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in 2009, they
conducted a study.
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And what they found is
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that that L2 learners and
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hate is language learners
both gained or both
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benefited from the, the
grammar instructions.
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And a tourist
in much later,
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maybe nine or ten
years later in 2018,
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also reviewed those
empirical studies
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and what tourists
found that
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the result that
both groups hate
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his language learners and
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non-native
language learners
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also benefit
from the task,
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but the task has to be
simple, not complex.
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So if I can.
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Kinda, based
on this study,
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if one can prove that in
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pico study also shows
that the type of
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instruction and task
complexity have
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a larger effect for
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the haters language
learners too.
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Just because they're
hated language learners,
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we cannot just give them
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a complex task because
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that can overwhelm them.
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And it's a complex task,
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require much of a
complex grammar.
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And without grammar
instructs and they would
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not be able to fulfill
the complex tasks.
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So this relates
back to the,
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I guess leave and
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the quote that I
mentioned that how
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grammar is important
for them to move
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from a intermediate
level, advanced level.
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Because for
advanced level they
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need to perform
more complex task.
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And hence the
grammar would be
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the tool to help them
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reach out or kind of
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complete complex tasks
to the advanced level.
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Thank you so
much for sharing
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these wonderful
research work.
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What do you owe? What do
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current pedagogical
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approaches say
about teaching?
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Grandma?
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Thank you for
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this amazing question
because this
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is the one topic
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that everybody's
talking about.
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The grammar translation
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becomes a taboo, right?
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The, Oh my God,
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you are teaching
grammar because
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that method has been
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kind of neglected or
not in the forefront.
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After the current
pedagogical approach
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is we each are
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guided by the
proficiency movement,
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right? This can
guess borrow.
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And in 1984 and you
can also look at
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the Act 1986 and
care I, 2016.
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They all talk about
the proficiency.
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Proficiency is important.
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But Professor
sea-based up what
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sets is communicative
approach or task-based?
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They all did never say
do not teach grammar.
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However, their approach of
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grammar teaching is
more of an implicit.
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And actually those kind of
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pedagogical approaches
do not give very sit,
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guidelines to the
language instructor
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to teach grammar.
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But it doesn't mean that
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they are sake do
not teach grammar.
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The way of grammar
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teaching could
be different,
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but they also do not like.
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Under valued the role of
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grammar is language
acquisition.
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What the focus is on
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communication when
you are making sense,
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or let's have the
communicative competence
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before the structural or
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linguistic competence
can be built in.
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So those are the
reasons that
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the modern days language
teaching approach
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is what we call the
macro approach,
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or more focused
on communication
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or task-based,
project-based and stuff.
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They do not they do not
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explicitly or
they do not put
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much emphasis on the
grammatical accuracy.
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What they've put
emphasis is on
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communicative competence,
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so communicative success.
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So, so to conclude that
we can say that, yes,
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modern grammatical
approaches do
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not focus much on grammar,
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but did not those
for null and void,
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the reuse of grammar or
the rule of grammar.
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So when we're teaching
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hated language learners,
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we have to keep
this idea in
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mind that even if
we are trying to
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teach those Haiti
language learners from
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the communicative
approach or
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task-based approach
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or project-based approach.
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We have to somehow
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insert the
grammar in some,
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some ways to help
them, right?
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Yeah, that's
wonderful insight
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to the grammar teaching
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here in the N2
focused teaching.
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So we'll talk about
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a few grammar teaching
techniques that
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teachers who are teaching
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the second language they
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can apply or maybe
use an idea.
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Yeah, sure, For sure.
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So there are like
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multiple ways of
teaching grammar.
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And if you'll go through
the literature of
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second language
acquisition are
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simple grammar teaching
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will find those things.
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So we have established,
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based on a previous
discussion
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and previous studies,
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that we need to teach
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grammar to hate is
language learners, right?
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Because the grammar is
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one important thing
that they are missing.
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And in the modern days,
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when we say that
the classroom
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should be
student-centered.
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And if our student
population demography
276
00:09:33,490 --> 00:09:35,110
is Haidt is
language learners,
277
00:09:35,110 --> 00:09:36,880
then we have to
kind of mold
278
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,550
our classes to
the need of that,
279
00:09:39,550 --> 00:09:41,095
those hated
language learners.
280
00:09:41,095 --> 00:09:42,535
So that said, there are
281
00:09:42,535 --> 00:09:44,650
different ways of
teaching grammar.
282
00:09:44,650 --> 00:09:46,195
You will see
that some time
283
00:09:46,195 --> 00:09:47,560
you can use deductive,
284
00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:49,435
which is also
descriptive grammar,
285
00:09:49,435 --> 00:09:50,515
are inductive.
286
00:09:50,515 --> 00:09:52,090
So our sometimes you
287
00:09:52,090 --> 00:09:53,620
can use functional
grammar or
288
00:09:53,620 --> 00:09:55,480
sometime people who try to
289
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,850
teach grammar with
the concept based.
290
00:09:57,850 --> 00:10:00,015
And these all things
can be categorized in a
291
00:10:00,015 --> 00:10:01,825
implicit versus explicit
292
00:10:01,825 --> 00:10:03,160
ways of teaching grammar.
293
00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:04,390
So we can choose
294
00:10:04,390 --> 00:10:07,150
our strategies based on
the uninterpretable,
295
00:10:07,150 --> 00:10:09,490
uninterpretable
feature of a grandma.
296
00:10:09,490 --> 00:10:11,755
And I'll talk
more about that.
297
00:10:11,755 --> 00:10:15,475
So interpreter in
interpretable features
298
00:10:15,475 --> 00:10:18,040
are the features which
have semantic value.
299
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,930
So for example,
300
00:10:19,930 --> 00:10:22,960
number in Hindi when
you say a lurker,
301
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,820
which is similar,
and letter K,
302
00:10:24,820 --> 00:10:26,875
which is plural, boys.
303
00:10:26,875 --> 00:10:27,910
And that has a meaning
304
00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:29,125
attached to that, right?
305
00:10:29,125 --> 00:10:31,030
But uninterpretable
features should be
306
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:33,295
the features we do not
have semantic value.
307
00:10:33,295 --> 00:10:35,035
For example, if I say
308
00:10:35,035 --> 00:10:37,705
maze and I say
maize is feminine,
309
00:10:37,705 --> 00:10:40,405
in a maze, that means
table in English.
310
00:10:40,405 --> 00:10:42,205
But in Hindi,
maize is family,
311
00:10:42,205 --> 00:10:45,190
and that feminine as a
feature of the word,
312
00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:48,190
has no semantic
value to contribute.
313
00:10:48,190 --> 00:10:50,440
If somebody says
majors masculine,
314
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,230
the measure to
still be table.
315
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:55,130
And eight, it will be
just ungrammatical.
316
00:10:55,130 --> 00:10:57,380
So depending on
the what kind of
317
00:10:57,380 --> 00:11:01,355
feature that instructor
is trying to teach,
318
00:11:01,355 --> 00:11:03,605
they can choose different
ways of teaching,
319
00:11:03,605 --> 00:11:05,660
like deductively
or inductively,
320
00:11:05,660 --> 00:11:07,670
or implicitly
or explicitly.
321
00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:09,860
So talking
322
00:11:09,860 --> 00:11:11,180
about deductive
and inductive
323
00:11:11,180 --> 00:11:12,365
approach more
a little bit.
324
00:11:12,365 --> 00:11:15,440
So reductive
can be used to
325
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,110
teach interpretable
feature of
326
00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:19,370
Hindi grandma,
for example,
327
00:11:19,370 --> 00:11:20,555
noun or adjective and
328
00:11:20,555 --> 00:11:22,190
verbs and push play
some condense and,
329
00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:25,145
and what we do
in deducing,
330
00:11:25,145 --> 00:11:28,475
like, let's say you
gave a short story,
331
00:11:28,475 --> 00:11:30,050
used authentic
material for
332
00:11:30,050 --> 00:11:31,430
the hated language
learners.
333
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:32,930
And you can ask them like,
334
00:11:32,930 --> 00:11:34,950
okay, look at this.
335
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,465
Reading an
underline, the word
336
00:11:38,465 --> 00:11:41,015
that you think is singular
and plural, right?
337
00:11:41,015 --> 00:11:44,210
So what learners will
do, they'll go around,
338
00:11:44,210 --> 00:11:46,670
read the story, and
339
00:11:46,670 --> 00:11:49,520
they will underline
the, the nouns.
340
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,335
And then you can ask,
341
00:11:51,335 --> 00:11:52,505
so what's the
difference with
342
00:11:52,505 --> 00:11:54,140
different form
of these noun?
343
00:11:54,140 --> 00:11:56,090
How the singular
noun loops
344
00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:57,560
versus the plural
noun books.
345
00:11:57,560 --> 00:11:58,910
And they can, they can
346
00:11:58,910 --> 00:12:02,000
deduce those
grammatical rules.
347
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,680
And they can also,
348
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,180
teacher can be helpful to
349
00:12:05,180 --> 00:12:06,770
or you can put
them in a group.
350
00:12:06,770 --> 00:12:09,050
So the pair work
would be helpful too.
351
00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:10,340
So what they will do, they
352
00:12:10,340 --> 00:12:11,945
will co-construct
their own rules.
353
00:12:11,945 --> 00:12:13,355
Inductive is
354
00:12:13,355 --> 00:12:14,300
something for
355
00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:15,860
uninterpretable
features because
356
00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:17,210
the features that
does not have
357
00:12:17,210 --> 00:12:20,465
semantic contributes
and in the sentences,
358
00:12:20,465 --> 00:12:23,060
you need to draw that in.
359
00:12:23,060 --> 00:12:24,560
So not the learner.
For example,
360
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:25,985
the obliques form.
361
00:12:25,985 --> 00:12:27,875
If I say, for example,
362
00:12:27,875 --> 00:12:30,875
camera MAY, which
means in a room.
363
00:12:30,875 --> 00:12:33,260
So camera maze
ungrammatical,
364
00:12:33,260 --> 00:12:35,780
but come remain would
be grammatical.
365
00:12:35,780 --> 00:12:37,940
So what is the difference
between camera
366
00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:39,710
versus Combray that come
367
00:12:39,710 --> 00:12:40,970
raise an oblique form.
368
00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:42,365
But the camera is camera.
369
00:12:42,365 --> 00:12:44,150
The room has a
clear meaning.
370
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:46,190
So the learner might
not be able to
371
00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:48,455
focus on those
different form,
372
00:12:48,455 --> 00:12:52,370
which has no semantic
if fences, right?
373
00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:54,215
So that's why it
is important too.
374
00:12:54,215 --> 00:12:56,240
Maybe teach those features
375
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,445
more inductively.
So teach them.
376
00:12:58,445 --> 00:13:03,035
So the, the idea is that
in deductive manner,
377
00:13:03,035 --> 00:13:04,700
one activity I can
378
00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:07,295
suggest is something
like based activity.
379
00:13:07,295 --> 00:13:09,410
Where you then,
like I said,
380
00:13:09,410 --> 00:13:10,790
presented such
stories with
381
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:11,630
the noun and asked
382
00:13:11,630 --> 00:13:14,150
them to underline
the nouns,
383
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:16,640
which is the
a, a 10 cents.
384
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,560
So pace stands
for presentation.
385
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:20,330
Atkinson, C stands for
386
00:13:20,330 --> 00:13:23,480
co-construct sun and is
tends for extension.
387
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,235
So then you ask them to
388
00:13:25,235 --> 00:13:27,410
underline the noun what
389
00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:28,820
we're doing as
an instructor,
390
00:13:28,820 --> 00:13:30,380
you are drawing
their attention to
391
00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:32,795
those nouns,
singular and plural.
392
00:13:32,795 --> 00:13:34,205
And then maybe ask
393
00:13:34,205 --> 00:13:36,530
the learners in
a group two,
394
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:38,000
construct their own rule
395
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,380
for singular and plural.
396
00:13:39,380 --> 00:13:42,110
And a teacher can also
jump in and help and
397
00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:44,600
then asked them to do
some extent sense.
398
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,640
So give them some
few vocabulary
399
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:47,690
in noun and asked and like
400
00:13:47,690 --> 00:13:48,890
based on your own rule,
401
00:13:48,890 --> 00:13:50,765
what would be the
plural of these nouns?
402
00:13:50,765 --> 00:13:53,480
So that would be a
detective style of
403
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,580
grammar teaching based
404
00:13:55,580 --> 00:13:57,395
on the authentic material.
405
00:13:57,395 --> 00:13:59,000
Whereas inductively,
406
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,640
you have to present
the rules first.
407
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:02,705
So PPP, you'd be
408
00:14:02,705 --> 00:14:03,800
a great example of
409
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,705
inductive style of
grammar teaching,
410
00:14:05,705 --> 00:14:07,250
where you present
the rules and you
411
00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:08,690
can ask them to practice a
412
00:14:08,690 --> 00:14:10,340
little bit and
then ask them to
413
00:14:10,340 --> 00:14:14,825
produce something
so inductively.
414
00:14:14,825 --> 00:14:17,330
We can use it method of
415
00:14:17,330 --> 00:14:18,530
grammar teaching for those
416
00:14:18,530 --> 00:14:19,715
features in a language
417
00:14:19,715 --> 00:14:21,005
which does not have really
418
00:14:21,005 --> 00:14:24,890
a meaning and enhance
the learner would not
419
00:14:24,890 --> 00:14:26,600
be able to notice
420
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,360
any differences in terms
421
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,595
of meaning because just
focus on the form.
422
00:14:31,595 --> 00:14:32,840
So for these things,
423
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:34,010
we need to just draw
424
00:14:34,010 --> 00:14:35,660
that in San office to run,
425
00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:37,550
starting with
sewing the rule and
426
00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:40,100
giving them little
bit more practice.
427
00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:41,330
Wonderful.
428
00:14:41,330 --> 00:14:42,560
I really liked the example
429
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,060
and the styles that
you've given in
430
00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:45,530
order to teach trauma as
431
00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:47,749
part of the second
language instructions.
432
00:14:47,749 --> 00:14:49,580
We heard a lot
about implicit
433
00:14:49,580 --> 00:14:51,620
versus explicit teaching.
434
00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:52,820
What are these methods and
435
00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:54,980
their relevance in
the drama teaching?
436
00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:56,840
Oh, that's great. So the
437
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,875
implicit versus explicit.
438
00:14:58,875 --> 00:15:00,880
We've talked a lot
439
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,835
these days by
instructed SLA.
440
00:15:03,835 --> 00:15:06,130
So instructed SLA
is a subfield
441
00:15:06,130 --> 00:15:08,665
of SLA or second
language acquisition.
442
00:15:08,665 --> 00:15:11,590
My colleague stone
low and at MSU has
443
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:14,830
a textbook on on
instructed SLA And and I
444
00:15:14,830 --> 00:15:16,810
do teach a
instructed SLA to
445
00:15:16,810 --> 00:15:19,480
my muffled students where
446
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:20,980
I teach the theory course
447
00:15:20,980 --> 00:15:21,970
in which we tried to
448
00:15:21,970 --> 00:15:24,640
explore some of the
grammatical features.
449
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,220
So for various
languages and students
450
00:15:27,220 --> 00:15:28,420
are asked to do
a little bit
451
00:15:28,420 --> 00:15:29,800
of empirical research.
452
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,440
And they decide
whether implicit or
453
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:33,835
explicit to teach
454
00:15:33,835 --> 00:15:36,220
grammar teaching
is better and,
455
00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:37,450
and sometime
they come with
456
00:15:37,450 --> 00:15:39,040
the one reserves or
the other readers.
457
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,345
So the debate, which,
458
00:15:40,345 --> 00:15:43,555
which way Better is still,
459
00:15:43,555 --> 00:15:45,160
the debate is still on.
460
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,279
We cannot kind of conclude
461
00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:49,960
that what way of
462
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:50,830
grammar teaching is
463
00:15:50,830 --> 00:15:52,210
the better
grandma teaching,
464
00:15:52,210 --> 00:15:54,160
just for the
grammatical development
465
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:55,660
or grammatical knowledge.
466
00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,180
However, based on
467
00:15:58,180 --> 00:16:01,930
my own teaching and
learning experiences,
468
00:16:01,930 --> 00:16:04,720
I can, I feel that
explicit ref,
469
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,430
so the explicit refers to
470
00:16:06,430 --> 00:16:08,365
the learning
grammar concepts.
471
00:16:08,365 --> 00:16:10,060
So you are asked, okay,
472
00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:13,134
Today we are going to
learn present habitual.
473
00:16:13,134 --> 00:16:14,980
And then you present
474
00:16:14,980 --> 00:16:17,634
the rule and then
stood in practice,
475
00:16:17,634 --> 00:16:18,880
and then they learn it.
476
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,640
All right? Or maybe
you can say like okay,
477
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,060
here is the story in which
478
00:16:24,060 --> 00:16:26,600
Somebody is a spy
479
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:27,950
and who is collecting
480
00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:29,675
information about
the suspect.
481
00:16:29,675 --> 00:16:31,760
And that person
made the story of
482
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,310
what the what the
the person who
483
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:36,200
is being observed is
484
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,870
doing each day or every
day at what time,
485
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:40,535
what he or she does.
486
00:16:40,535 --> 00:16:42,980
Then you can
ask the student
487
00:16:42,980 --> 00:16:44,060
to figure out
488
00:16:44,060 --> 00:16:46,280
the common pattern
in those sentences.
489
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,140
So probably you will
490
00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:49,640
get the habitual
constructs.
491
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:50,960
Unlike in Hindi, we have
492
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,375
our head TA,
for example, X,
493
00:16:53,375 --> 00:16:55,850
SAT, but you
have no budget,
494
00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:58,100
coffee peta head,
That's a bank job.
495
00:16:58,100 --> 00:16:59,960
The Hague error,
budget bank,
496
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:01,580
say lapis out their hair
497
00:17:01,580 --> 00:17:03,035
barrier with
the Kennecott.
498
00:17:03,035 --> 00:17:06,365
So in these kind of
authentic material,
499
00:17:06,365 --> 00:17:07,850
when you are
teaching explicitly,
500
00:17:07,850 --> 00:17:09,710
you can ask them to
underline the dot,
501
00:17:09,710 --> 00:17:10,970
dot dot constructs and
502
00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:12,920
eventually they'll
get it right.
503
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,545
But in, by contour
504
00:17:15,545 --> 00:17:17,045
past implicit
language learning,
505
00:17:17,045 --> 00:17:18,875
it's unconscious behavior.
506
00:17:18,875 --> 00:17:20,360
So you do not really say
507
00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:22,940
what grammar pattern
we're going to learn.
508
00:17:22,940 --> 00:17:24,470
You ask them to eat
509
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:26,570
something and maybe ask
them to like, okay,
510
00:17:26,570 --> 00:17:28,820
so can you be the spy and
511
00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:29,840
can you collect this
512
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,580
information about
the suspect?
513
00:17:31,580 --> 00:17:33,440
And what they're trying to
514
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,765
do is trying to do a task,
515
00:17:35,765 --> 00:17:37,730
writing a report about
516
00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:39,980
the suspect that
what she or he does.
517
00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:41,300
But in doing so,
518
00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:43,445
they are using
habitual, right?
519
00:17:43,445 --> 00:17:46,205
Students don't know
what grammar structure,
520
00:17:46,205 --> 00:17:47,120
grammar,
521
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,070
grammatical knowledge
of grammatical item
522
00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:51,350
they're learning, but
what they're doing,
523
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:52,910
they're doing a
conversation or
524
00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:54,800
communicating what
task-based approach or
525
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,140
doing some project
in order to complete
526
00:17:57,140 --> 00:18:00,335
that project using the
habitual construction.
527
00:18:00,335 --> 00:18:03,125
So cognitive psychology or
528
00:18:03,125 --> 00:18:05,135
talks a lot about this,
529
00:18:05,135 --> 00:18:07,940
that a statistical
learning is possible.
530
00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:09,710
So what does that mean?
531
00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:13,580
If the NF input page
exposed to the learners,
532
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:16,220
and then learners
cognitively able to see
533
00:18:16,220 --> 00:18:19,490
the pattern coming
out of that input.
534
00:18:19,490 --> 00:18:20,870
And they make their own
535
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:23,450
subconscious or
unconscious rule
536
00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:25,850
about that particular
structure.
537
00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:29,240
That's sort of an
implicit grandma,
538
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,710
style of grammar teaching.
539
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:34,460
That said, I would also
say that modern days,
540
00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:36,110
because the
communicative approach
541
00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:37,160
or macro approaches do
542
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,070
not allow to explicitly
teach grammar.
543
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:41,660
So hence, the implicit
544
00:18:41,660 --> 00:18:42,950
way of teaching grammar
545
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:46,505
is really important
to learn.
546
00:18:46,505 --> 00:18:50,180
To just kind of slide
in a very smoothly
547
00:18:50,180 --> 00:18:51,740
in terms of a
modern approach
548
00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:54,270
of language teaching.
549
00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:57,710
That's wonderful.
So in your opinion,
550
00:18:57,710 --> 00:18:59,420
what are the challenges
to teach grammar
551
00:18:59,420 --> 00:19:01,655
to heritage
language learners?
552
00:19:01,655 --> 00:19:05,690
There are a lot of
challenges to just
553
00:19:05,690 --> 00:19:07,430
begin with fear
for fear of
554
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:08,480
not following the current
555
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:09,500
pedagogical approach.
556
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:11,165
Say if you are an
instructor at,
557
00:19:11,165 --> 00:19:13,010
either at the
community school
558
00:19:13,010 --> 00:19:15,860
or at the college or at
the university level.
559
00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:18,230
And people will say,
560
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:20,585
Oh, you are teaching
grammar or translation.
561
00:19:20,585 --> 00:19:23,060
It's not a very
modern and up to date
562
00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:25,700
graham language
teaching method.
563
00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:27,290
And so that's kind
564
00:19:27,290 --> 00:19:29,720
of people are judging
you that you are
565
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,390
not using the
appropriate or
566
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:34,115
the modern or
current or updated
567
00:19:34,115 --> 00:19:37,055
teaching kind
of approaches.
568
00:19:37,055 --> 00:19:39,170
The point is that if
569
00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:41,960
the prisoners
need something,
570
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,555
we do not have to shy
away just because
571
00:19:44,555 --> 00:19:45,950
the modern approach is
572
00:19:45,950 --> 00:19:47,615
not explicitly
saying that.
573
00:19:47,615 --> 00:19:50,240
That said, I want
to reiterate
574
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,460
that macro purchase of
575
00:19:52,460 --> 00:19:54,950
language teaching or
communicative approach,
576
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:56,120
a task-based approach or
577
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:58,040
hate earned on
stuff like that.
578
00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,765
They never said
Don't teach grammar.
579
00:19:59,765 --> 00:20:02,150
What they're saying,
that the importance
580
00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:03,020
is communi case and
581
00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:04,730
not the grammatical
accuracy.
582
00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:07,055
So maybe teach
grammar implicitly.
583
00:20:07,055 --> 00:20:08,780
So that's the one fear,
584
00:20:08,780 --> 00:20:10,460
the taboo about
the grammar
585
00:20:10,460 --> 00:20:12,860
translation method
has to go away.
586
00:20:12,860 --> 00:20:15,530
A good language
teacher would be able
587
00:20:15,530 --> 00:20:17,240
to kind of mix
588
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,520
and match different
approaches.
589
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,420
Language teaching and
kind of use whatever
590
00:20:23,420 --> 00:20:26,135
feels right in
a given class
591
00:20:26,135 --> 00:20:28,100
or in their lesson plan.
592
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:30,425
The other problem is that
593
00:20:30,425 --> 00:20:32,600
the grammar instruction
instruction is
594
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,970
really important for
Haiti language learners.
595
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:37,010
However, we have
a mixed classes.
596
00:20:37,010 --> 00:20:38,450
So those are the
real challenge.
597
00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:39,770
And how do you
make the balance
598
00:20:39,770 --> 00:20:41,045
between the L2 or
599
00:20:41,045 --> 00:20:42,290
non hated and hate is
600
00:20:42,290 --> 00:20:44,285
language learners in
the same classroom.
601
00:20:44,285 --> 00:20:46,190
Lack of teacher
training is
602
00:20:46,190 --> 00:20:48,515
also a kind of an issue.
603
00:20:48,515 --> 00:20:50,510
So these are the
couple of issues
604
00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:53,700
for our challenges
to teach grammar.
605
00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:56,525
Thank you so much
for sharing.
606
00:20:56,525 --> 00:20:57,920
So one final question.
607
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,000
What are your
suggestions and
608
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,925
recommendations to
improve drama for Agile?
609
00:21:01,925 --> 00:21:05,735
So my suggestions and
recommendations is to,
610
00:21:05,735 --> 00:21:07,505
if the language
teaching should be
611
00:21:07,505 --> 00:21:08,780
the learner center and
612
00:21:08,780 --> 00:21:10,400
if HLA requires grammar,
613
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,900
then this would
include program.
614
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:15,485
It can kind of stuff
in our curriculum.
615
00:21:15,485 --> 00:21:16,940
Second, teachers
need to learn
616
00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:19,100
about types of
grammatical features and
617
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:20,735
figure out what
approach is
618
00:21:20,735 --> 00:21:21,965
appropriate to teach those
619
00:21:21,965 --> 00:21:23,225
grammatical features.
620
00:21:23,225 --> 00:21:24,440
Teacher also need to be
621
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,075
trained to use
mixed methods.
622
00:21:26,075 --> 00:21:27,620
So it's not just
the communicative,
623
00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:28,820
communicative
communicated.
624
00:21:28,820 --> 00:21:32,090
Maybe you can use other
teaching methods to
625
00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:34,370
kind of address the need
626
00:21:34,370 --> 00:21:36,545
of your demography
in your classroom.
627
00:21:36,545 --> 00:21:39,230
And then, as I cannot
628
00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:40,460
say enough that
629
00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:41,885
no teaching
approaches are bad,
630
00:21:41,885 --> 00:21:44,630
what you need to do or
need to learn is how
631
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:47,945
to mix those approaches
for your benefit.
632
00:21:47,945 --> 00:21:50,120
Instructs the instructors.
633
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:51,110
There's a gap between
634
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:52,760
researchers and teachers.
635
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,040
And the researchers do
636
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,390
their own research
and come up with
637
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:58,040
the empirical studies that
638
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,080
will also help
the instructor.
639
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,315
But instructor should also
640
00:22:02,315 --> 00:22:04,130
read the empirical
studies such
641
00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:06,410
as a bolus or
642
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:08,720
put whiskey and her
colleague and tourists.
643
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,100
Stuff that I talked
644
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:12,245
about this in
this podcast.
645
00:22:12,245 --> 00:22:15,020
Those are the vehicle
study that will
646
00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:17,840
give you that little
bit of idea that
647
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,820
how acquisition
happens and
648
00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:21,080
what can or cannot be
649
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,580
used in terms of
650
00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:25,860
teaching grammar
within the classroom.
651
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,420
Thank you so much
Dr. engine for
652
00:22:29,420 --> 00:22:31,340
your wonderful insight
653
00:22:31,340 --> 00:22:33,290
on teaching of grammar.
654
00:22:33,290 --> 00:22:36,710
And your insight will
655
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:38,930
definitely going to
help the teachers who
656
00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:43,040
are going to
have grammar as
657
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,950
part of their L2 pedagogy
658
00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:47,180
as well as instructions.
659
00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:48,950
Thank you so much
for being plank.
660
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:49,670
You have yeah, It was
661
00:22:49,670 --> 00:22:50,690
pleasure talking to you.
662
00:22:50,690 --> 00:22:52,110
Thank you.