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Professor of Sociology director of the Center for International migration at UCLA and I'm delighted to welcome you to today's bookstore. This is part of an ongoing series that we have run since the beginning of the academic year with our friends and colleagues at the University of San Diego, the Center for comparative Immigration Studies. Every Friday, we meet from 12 to roughly 130 to discuss a new exciting book on a migration topic. And we will continue to do so for the rest of the spring quarter. That means we have another three sessions and next Friday, we'll assemble here at the same time to discuss a very interesting book entitled adventure capital migration and the making up an African hub in Paris by Julie Kleinman, an anthropologist with a comment by Laurie Hart from the UCLA Department of Anthropology but today we're going to focus on a place a little closer to Los Angeles, namely Maricopa County and we're going to hear about very interesting new book driving while brown Sheriff Joe Arpaio vs of Latino resistance and to tell us about this book are the two authors are Terry green Sterling and Jude Jaffe blocks. So they will talk to us for roughly 2025 minutes and the their presentation will be followed by a comment by Professor Mito mentor of the London School of Public Affairs at UCLA. The baton will go back to Terry and Jude for a brief response. And then we will open up for discussion with the audience, you can send me questions in the chat, you can raise your hand, and we should have a lot of material for lively back and forth. So without further ado, Terry and Jude, the floor is yours. Great. Well, we're going to start with a multimedia presentation. So I'm going to share my screen.

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All right.

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on it.

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Hi there. I'm Carrie green Sterling. So nice to be with you today. Thank you for joining us a little bit about what brought me to writing this book. I was born into an Arizona Sonora Borderlands family and I have for many years written about the people, places and politics of this region.

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I have interviewed and written about Arizona's notorious Sheriff Joe or Pio for newspapers and magazines for many years. Also, I interviewed him for a previous book. And now for this book. I'm happy to share my thoughts and insights and experiences based on those years of reporting with you.

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And Hello, thanks for being here. I'm Jude Jaffe block and I started covering Sheriff former Sheriff Arpaio in 2012. Back then I was a public radio reporter. And our book draws on about 30 interviews that we did with our pile over the years, as well as interviews with about 100 others who oppose him supported him were factored into this history in some other way. And there were also 1000s of pages of records that we consulted for this book. As a journalist, I won't be sharing my opinions today, but I will be sharing reporting and analysis and we are going to launch into our presentation.

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So what's this book about? This is a book about a powerful local sheriff known throughout the world for his immigration crackdowns because he is known to sometimes retaliate against his critics, few in Arizona have the courage to stand up to him. The system of checks and balances breaks down. So what happens is a fearless Latino resistance rises up against our Pio as well as these new laws in Arizona that are designed to criminalize and deport immigrants. This is a book about a battle for America really, at an you know, at a different level. It's a book about a battle for America at a time of unconstitutional policing, reckoning and demographic change.

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And we titled this book driving while brown because of the history of people of Mexican descent in Arizona, feeling targeted by immigration theme traffic stops, and Danny Ortega who was featured in this book. He was born in this country and explain to us how some of the earlier patterns of crackdowns against unauthorized immigrants also felt like an attack on him too, even though he was

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He's a US citizen. He was a young man in the 1970s when the Peoria Police Department outside of Phoenix began targeting farmworkers in traffic stops to check their papers. And let's listen to Danny.

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People were being stopped because they were Brown, driving more brown. Okay, and the we saw this not only as an attack on the undocumented community, but we saw it as an attack on us simply because of the features of our skin and our hair color and our language.

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Let's turn our attention just for a second back to Joe our pile, like who is this guy? Well, he's the son of an unwanted immigrant who becomes the bane of unwanted immigrants. He spent 20 years in federal drug enforcement. And he developed in this career and interest, and embracement of conspiracy theories.

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skill at getting media attention. And finally, he also learns to develop characters for his fictional characters for his undercover work. he retires in Phoenix, and he runs for sheriff in 1992. Here he creates a new persona for himself. And that persona is America's toughest sheriff.

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In the early 2000,

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a movement starts building in Arizona to kind of restrict and punish unauthorized immigration from Mexico and Central America not kind of completely restrict and punish unauthorized immigration from Mexico and Central America. Our Pio does not initially embrace

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embrace that cause but he pivots in 2006. After he sees it's popular with his white base. In 2007, he signs up for a federal partnership to enforce immigration laws. And in the past, only federal agents could arrest immigrants for being undocumented because that's technically a civil violation of federal immigration law, not a criminal violation.

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But our piles sought to change how that kind of immigration enforcement could happen on the ground locally.

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My program I philosophy is a pure program, you go after illegals, I'm not afraid to say that. And you go after them, and you lock them up.

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And our pilot soon starts many tactics to crack down on immigration locally. And one of them are these massive neighborhood sweeps. And his his deputies would flood neighborhoods and pullover cars, and they'd arrest people who had outstanding warrants. But they would also arrest people who were suspected of being undocumented. So drivers and passengers would be arrested and then turned over to ice for deportation. And through this tactic, Latino US citizens and legal permanent residents and other lawful immigrants also felt targeted to.

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And this is a scene from the documentary to Americans, which I highly recommend. It came out in 2013. And it It shows footage from a number of these sweeps and that in this scene, you'll also see some of the activists who would gather at the site of these sweeps to yell at the people who had been arrested to remind them to stay quiet to ask for a lawyer to not sign anything if they were given a chance to to sign for voluntary deportation. And so you'll you'll meet some of the people in who we write about in the book

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longer a

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lot

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longer.

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I mean, there was no reason to pull me off at all. There was no reason I was in the speed. I didn't do any of your relation.

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I think it's the way you look and look and spanic and I am

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orange

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and

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we're having broken windshields and taillights. Explain how that is law enforcement. Explain that.

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Explain how that makes you

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feel

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It's time

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for creaminess. This has been

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Camila quaden porque esto para sunim fear. Arizona says the community No no, no fear no parent.

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No

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means up

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about that. Um, and so those sweeps weren't the only tactic as part of this crackdown. There are also worksite raids. This is a picture of a car wash where our Pio deputies

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arrested workers who are undocumented who didn't have lawful authorization to work in this country. They were charged with felonies and turned over to ice for deportation.

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And famously, in 2009, our Pio staged this event for the media to watch while he paraded all of the undocumented jail inmates in his jail to a segregated portion of tent city the outdoor jail.

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So who are the people who rose up against Joe Arpaio and these immigration was in Arizona, they are people who are indigenous

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immigrants from Central America and Mexico, day laborers, Mexican Americans, older Chicanos, young Latin ex activists, their allies, and, and and in some cases, their kids. They all join the resistance against our Pio.

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One of the activists that one of the Latin x activists that we follow in the book is Carlos Garcia, who

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gained national fame for his organizing. And he told us that he spent every day every waking hour of his day for, you know, months and months and months, trying to figure out how to stop your pile because he too, had been an undocumented immigrant.

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Lydia Guzman, who is a main character in our book, and she is also the counterbalance to Joe our pile and the tension between your pile and Lydia Guzman propels us through the book, she

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she ramps up her activism as our Pio ramps up his enforcement. She's motivated by the terror that she sees, and that you just you just saw a tiny bit of in the in that film clip from two Americans.

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She takes down the names and contact information of victims and witnesses and some of these folks later join a very famous racial profiling lawsuit against our Pio in federal court. The case is called melendrez v r pile.

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And we just want to take a minute here to pause and go a little bit more in depth with some of these activists who were involved in the fight against our Pio because what shaped them is a really important part of the story. And so Lydia Guzman, who you just saw, this is her when she's a bit younger, in the late 90s. Right before she moved to Arizona with her two children who you see here, and she's she grew up in Southern California. She's the daughter of a her mother when it came to California undocumented but later was able to adjust status. Lydia really became politicized in her 20s in Southern California, when California voters voted in favor of Proposition 187 in 1994. And that was an initiative that would restrict public benefits from unauthorized immigrants including access to public education and some health care. And this moment, to Lydia felt like a slap in the face and she joined a backlash she helped register help naturalize immigrants to become citizens and helped register them to vote. May

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Analysts credit some of that organizing that happened in the wake of Prop 187. With really changing the political landscape in California,

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new voters were energized like Dino's ran for public office. And now, California is a very blue state with

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not not passing the kind of legislation like proposition 187 anymore.

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And then, oh, go ahead, Terry. You'll tell us about these guys. Okay. Um, I Tonya Bustamante. You saw him yelling to our pile. As an older guy you saw me online in the film clip. What kind of guy are you are pile separating little children from their parents.

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Danny Ortega. You also heard on the on the audio for driving while brown while driving while brown mattered.

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And in the history of Arizona and Alfredo Gutierrez. All three of these guys became activists as college students in the 1960s and 70s as Chicanos and they were of course motivated and worked with sesor Chavez

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and the United farmworkers movement. And we're going to just tell you a little more about Alfredo Gutierrez, who, who Yes, who was the man with the megaphone shouting in Spanish to ask for a lawyer. So he he, he went on to become as a young man, he joined the Arizona State Senate, but he grew up in a mining town in Arizona, and the photo you see in black and white. This is a photo of the segregated YMCA that his father who was also grew up in the same town. Miami is the name of the town, Miami, Arizona.

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In 1928, this YMCA branch was was only for Mexicans, you know, many of these boys were Mexican American, but that but they called it the Mexican YMCA. And they were it was separate. And the the pool at the YMCA.

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The so called Mexicans couldn't swim in it only one day a week, the day before the pool was drained. And Alfredo grew up. Well, before I go on to that his father who is in this picture, and the black and white picture, as a teenager was actually deported as part of a mass deportation in the 1930s. And he wound up coming back to Miami and raised Alfredo there. But Alfredo grew up with this idea that even being a US citizen might not protect you if there is an attack on immigrants, because his father had lived this experience. And as as Alfredo was growing up in Miami, he saw the mining union really helped to end segregation in the town. He he, as a little boy, he wound up going to a school that was integrated for the first time. And he credited that union organizing with that, with those social justice reforms that he saw growing up and brought that sensibility with him into when he went to ASU and met other Chicano activists.

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And so now we're going to return to the fight against our Pio and the racial profiling battle. And so where we had left off with that was that we had told you that Libya, Guzman was helping to gather evidence for this melendrez vr Pio racial profiling lawsuit. And that case went to trial in July of 2012. And the plaintiffs who were Latino drivers and passengers in Maricopa County, they had to prove that our pireaus tactics discriminated against them.

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So you saw the clip of our Pio talking about how he was going to round up all undocumented immigrants and he presented there as very fierce, tough guy, but actually in court. We watched him very carefully for a long time. And he you know, he presented himself in court as a as an old man who was, you know, often bewildered and confused and couldn't hear very well.

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And he repeatedly denied wrongdoing.

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At the end, after the trial, a federal judge found our piles tactics were unconstitutional, and he ordered sweeping reforms at the agency to prevent profiling. Along the way in the litigation, our Pio basically in 2009, our Pio had lost that federal partnership with ice that we told you about when when Obama came into office, his

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Department of Homeland Security wound up revoking that agreement. And because of that, the judge found that our Pio no longer had the authority to arrest immigrants unless there was a criminal reason to do so that just being undocumented wasn't enough of a reason for a local sheriff to arrest someone that should be left to the federal agency. Now, even though the judge had told our Pio in 2011, to stop making immigration arrests, it came out later that our Pio is deputy that our Pio had ignored the order and his deputies had never been communicated this order.

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And the members of the Latino resistance called for the US Attorney, called for there to be criminal contempt of court charges against our Pio because he had violated the judge's order. And this is an activist, very Deanna and nandus. She's a dreamer. And she and others stood outside of the US Attorney's Office in Phoenix, and called for there to be a criminal prosecution.

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Oh, that's our Pio. He has done enough crime. He has done enough suffering. He has done enough pain, and our community will not take it anymore. And in the end, the Department of Justice in Washington a different division does decide to prosecute, but we'll hear about that later.

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So, in the meantime, our pile makes a new friend Donald Trump. Our pile endorses Trump very early in in Trump's presidential bid, and the two have what I view as a mutual admiration society. Our Pio likes to talk about how similar he and Trump are in so many ways. And he calls Trump his his hero.

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Trump in that it Trump also sees in our Pio

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sort of this successfully xenophobic rhetoric that really resonates with a certain part of the white voter base, and he sees how well our Pio has used it to his political advantage. And the activists of course, and just and as well as our Pio fans at all see this similarity between Trump and our Pio these two very similar figures and they call the activists the Latino activists call Trump, the National or Pio.

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And many of the activists who had been battling our Pio for years joined together to launch a campaign called basta our Pio to get him out of office in 2016. And they mobilize voters of color who don't have a history of voting and who campaigns tip typically don't reach out to.

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So um, it works. Finally after 24 years in office, or Pio loses his reelection bid for sheriff in 2016.

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Now, many voters view him as a ruthless civil rights violator as as a symbol of white supremacy and law enforcement. And, as some some view him as an old man who is an expensive embarrassment to Arizona. So what all this means is the resistance has prevailed. But there is more work to be done. There always is. And the activists set their sights on our piles our pile like our pile ish policies in the jails, and other discriminatory law enforcement practices on the streets.

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So we were talking about

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our Pio disobeying the federal judge and after a criminal trial, our Pio is indeed found guilty of criminal contempt of court for disobeying the judge. But before a pile is sentenced, his friend Trump gives her pile his first presidential partner.

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And there's an immediate backlash to this pardon and heavy criticism of Trump's decision. And we met with our Pio after the pardon and he shared his reaction to that backlash.

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I got two new titles now. That disgrace chirrup that's everywhere. disgrace Sheriff and the other one is races.

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So I got two new titles. I lost my America's toughest Sheriff title. Now our pile tribe right

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For office again, but he was not successful. But the grassroots efforts to mobilize voters of color and Arizona continues. And this is Maria Castro. She's an activist in her 20s, who she's been walking neighborhoods trying to get out the vote since she was in high school back in 2011. She told us she'd never seen voters as excited to participate, as she saw in 2020. And that excitement is one factor for why Arizona turned blue in the 2020 presidential election. And she told us, I think the defeat of Joe or Pio made it tangible, that we can defeat the villains that haunt our dreams.

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And that concludes our presentation.

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Thank you so much. We'll now turn the floor over to another mentor who will comment on the book. And then we'll segue back to juden. Terry, and then on to questions and answers. I'm out on the floor is yours. Yes. And so thanks so much for the invitation to comment on this book, which I read cover to cover, including the appendix and the notes. It really reads like a page turning political thriller that Chronicles and it's kind of like courtroom drama. That chronicles the devolution of immigration enforcement. And it's and it's really devastating consequences for Latino communities. This book Chronicles two parallel stories. The first is the sort of rise of anti immigrant populism in Arizona that we we can remember from proposition 187 in California. But there were a number of other restrictive state immigration laws that the book talks about, even before the one that we I think is outside of Arizona knows most about sb 1070. So it chronicles the rise and fall of Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Maricopa County documentary how he transformed from a conservative but kind of mainstream Sheriff into the anti immigrant demagogue and the Toria Sheriff that I think we're all more familiar with. And at the same time, it tells the story of the rise of Latino political power in Arizona, and show us how a handful of immigrant activists and organizers were resisting our peyo from the very beginning, through protests, and through Manning these hotlines where they would document the ways that the sheriff's office would arrest people and round people up through saturation patrols and worksite raids, in hopes that one day this information would be used to hold the sheriff's office to account for their racial racial profiling and civil rights violations. And over time, these documented stories were used in investigations and lawsuits that slowly began to chip away at the sheriff's office authority and abuses. And as these various cases were slowly grinding their way through the courts, organizers continue to rally protests and register voters. And as we can tell by 2020, their movement and actions were really instrumental in turning Arizona blue in 2020. Much like what happened in California as a result of Proposition 187. So this book was simultaneously very depressing, and really hopeful. It was depressing, because it really shows that the battle over the devolution of immigration enforcement is going to be one that is ongoing, because as restrictionist continue to pass anti immigrant state laws, and they do so because it's politically popular, right? A small minority of voters really want it and it helps people win elections.

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And people like Kris kobach, and other people in the restrictionist movement continue innovating, in creating these anti immigrant laws that they hope will pass muster. Now, at the end, many of these laws are defeated in court, but that they're still implemented, sometimes for seven years to a decade. And their implementation has devastating effects for the communities that are that are most affected, and in these case, Latino immigrants and their families and citizens. So, you know, one thing that I sort of wondered is that,

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you know, in some ways, it doesn't really matter that so many of these laws are eventually struck down because they

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We'll just find a new way to create anti immigrant laws that have really devastating consequences. And reminds me of this term from a legal article written by Michael Whitney over 20 years ago, he coined the term laboratories of bigotry to describe what happens when we devolve immigration enforcement authority and law allow legislators and local law enforcement officials to innovate in these ways. So we're all familiar with sb 1070 and 287 G, but I was really less familiar with Arizona's sb 1372. This is this human smuggling law that passed in 2005. That made it a state felony to smuggle undocumented immigrants in Arizona. Now in this case, Maricopa County's innovation was to allow enter prosecute undocumented immigrants on the charge of conspiring to smuggle themselves. Now this law was immediately challenged. There was a lawsuit against it in 2006. But it wasn't blocked until 2013. Right, so it was on the books for a long time, allowing the sheriff's office to continue to arrest and charge people through this statute for eight years. So the book really shows that our Pio delighted in illegally enforcing American immigration laws, and routinely instructed his deputies to target Latinos for traffic and pedestrian stops to detain them for longer than is legally allowed. And to conduct these illegal worksite raids and saturation patrols. His office did a lot of other outrageous things, including destroying evidence, investigating and retaliating against political opponents, misusing public funds, like illegally confiscating things from people and this sort of depths of depravity in the sheriff's office where I think I hadn't fully understood everything that was happening in Arizona.

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That being said, you know, the actions of the sheriff's office were really extreme. And one question that I have for the authors and I think really the main question is,

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what might have happened if our paleo had been less obviously racist, and retaliatory, retaliatory? So when his actions have received such opposition if they were executed, quote, more professionally. And I asked this thinking about my own research in which I examined the devolution of immigration enforcement authority in in Tennessee. And I went back and I looked for my field notes after I read this book, because I remember this conversation that happened in a meeting between the sheriff's office in Tennessee where they were implementing to the seven G and immigrant activists, and they were arguing over the large number of people who are arrested and detained for the charge of driving without a license. And the immigrant organizers were comparing this to what was happening in Maricopa County. And the sheriff at this meeting says, I never want to be compared to Joe Arpaio. That's not what I do. Our peyo isn't even a sheriff. He does a lot of things wrong. It's not even 287 G.

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And the reason that I asked this question is on the one hand, it's the way that our our Pio delighted in and

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how he worked for political press to show how tough he was on immigration enforcement that made him popular, but it was also ultimately his downfall. On the other hand, local law enforcement agencies can police immigration as Monica rissani says, through the backdoor, in lots of ways that are entirely legal, right, so arresting people for driving without a license. In most states, undocumented immigrants are ineligible for driver's licenses. Even if undocumented immigrants are are not arrested, their cars can be confiscated. They can pay enormous fines and fees, as documented in Greg, Viet, those words, and police, the law enforcement agencies can do all of these things legally and professionally. So one question I had was sort of, well, why did the sheriff do all of these things? He could have accomplished many of his goals in ways that were less obvious and legal,

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if he had wanted to, and I say this thinking about the arguments that many of us have had about Donald Trump and his most more incendiary policies, that if he had been more competent, he probably could have gotten more of these things through. But luckily, his buffoonery sort of undermine some of his more diabolical efforts. So that's really my main question.

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A couple of other questions that I'd love to hear your thoughts on, are just approaching this book. as journalists, you have a particular set of tools and practices that are similar yet different from a sort of standard qualitative social science methods. And, dude, I noticed when you started this talk, you said that this talk was a result of your reporting and analysis and not your opinions. And so I sort of wondered why you slip that in, and have more questions about your own positionality when you're collecting data for this kind of long project. And then the other question that I have is that, um, one thing that really struck me as I read this work, is that you really talked about the biographies of different activists and organizers ensure that they did this work at great personal costs. It took emotional toll psychological tools, help tools, financial tools, a toll on their relationships. And, you know, why did you think it was so important to share those intimate details these stories as well, so I'll turn it back over to you. Thank you again.

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Okay, terrific. Thank you so much, Mother, you set us up terrifically for a great discussion. So back to you, Terry, and Jude and then we will turn to the audience.

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Well, thank you so much for that really thoughtful read and comment. Um, I guess, to start with the question about the contrast that you brought up with Tennessee or other law enforcement agencies that can do backdoor immigration enforcement without crossing a legal line?

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Well, I guess one point about that is sometimes they are crossing legal lines. And and nobody's bringing it up or or suing in court to find out where that line is. I think, but, but you're absolutely right, that a big part of this story is that, that our Pio was so public, and was was making so many public comments that it it did make it easier for the plaintiffs to make their case. And in fact, when our Pio is found to have violated court orders to not have followed the judge's order to stop making immigration arrests, the reason that was known was because our Pio was putting out press releases. And an ACLU attorney who was part of the effort just to sue our Pio noticed on Twitter, this press release that seemed to be bragging about something that was a direct violation and in conflict with the court order. And so so that just really encapsulates how the publicity edge,

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which was so important to his brand worked against him in court. And I do think that there are other cases, I wish I knew more about it. But um, for example, the Justice Department brought a similar kind of

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case against a North Carolina sheriff. But that case, actually, they did not prevail. In that case, it's hard to prove some of these discriminatory policing cases that there's really a pattern and a practice that the bar can be very high. And in this case, I think some of our Pio his comments, and, and the press releases, did create did create a bit of a paper trail that conveyed what some of the objectives of what he was doing were. I think that it is interesting to note, though, that in Arizona, there are other law enforcement agencies that are doing some of the same kind of immigration tactics, just not the flashy kind, the backdoor kind, and there's not as much attention or outrage on it. And it reminds me as well of the fact that the Obama administration deported a record number of immigrants, and a lot of the outrage about immigration policy came under Trump. And we didn't see that outrage under Obama. And what what parallels with that is that our Pio successor, Paul penzone, a Democrat that many people in the movement against our Pio helped elect.

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Many of those activists feel disappointed because penzone has continued to allow ICE agents to pick up arrestees who are leaving the jail and so that nexus between local law enforcement to be a dragnet for deportation continues in Maricopa County, and even in spite of this sea change in office,

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at the same time, part of SB 1070 said that Arizona can't have any sanctuary cities and that's a nebulous term and we

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can debate about what that means. But it does. It does raise questions about what options does the sheriff have in light of that. But so that debate still continues today. And they're certainly not as much focus on it. But for those who are really adamant about wanting there to be a stop to local immigration enforcement, Penn zones administration has has been a disappointment. Some of the activists we featured in the book refused to even vote in that race in 2020, even though it was a choice between Penn zone and our pireaus, former chief deputy on the ballot, and I'll let Terry chime in.

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Well, Jude, Jude is the expert on the legal stuff. I can I can talk to you a little bit if you want on,

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about why we chose to write such intimate stories.

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I can't write stories, I can't write anything that isn't people centric. I like to look at how I I'm fascinated by people and dude is too. And we wanted, you know, this, this story had been told before in bits and pieces, you know, it had been reported on before, but what it never really been reported on before. were, you know, how activism impacts activists and activists, families, and what they went through and how they struggled, you know, their, their, you know, what their trials were and how they overcame them. That to me is, is in my view is what's fascinating part of the book. Because it's it's a, it's epic, you know, it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful story.

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This said, you know, we asked very tough questions. I mean, you know, activists like, and our Pio and everybody, all of us have failings, and we have good points and bad points. And we we wanted to tell the story of people as they are, because because I think that's what, you know, I think that's what readers respond to. And I think that's what will carry them if they if they develop an interest in the characters. They don't get through the book, they'll you know, they'll read through the book, they'll want to, they'll want to go along on the journey with the characters. So that's why we chose to do that. And I think also, I mean, I think it was really important to us today to reveal the private cost that that no one saw, I mean, everyone can see political change, you know, who won an election or the outcome of a court case. But when you realize that there's people who, who are going into debt and people who are losing their homes to foreclosure, whose partners are divorcing them, because they had to put the blood sweat and tears to get that to happen. I mean, that, that for big change like this, you know, sometimes that, you know, the ACLU did come in and Covington and Burling, a big law firm did come in to help with that case. And, and that was huge. But they also needed some of this on the ground activism grant at the grassroots level. And, you know, it's it's hard to punch a clock and get paid for that and get the get the recognition that is deserved to do that kind of work. And so I think that, for us to really understand how social change happens, we have to tell these private stories of the toll that it actually takes.

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Terrific. So thank you so much. And let's begin with the q&a we have. I'm going to start with Professor Cecilia menjivar. Let me give her

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letter Enter to ask a question. To the sharpens Yes. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. So can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Um, hi. This is, of course, a very interesting book, you know, that.

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We lost you.

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And it's been great. I have a question about these. The this as Amanda mentioned, the two stories that the second story about the activism and the personal stories that you decided to tell which are very important. One thing I wanted to know more about is whether or how you so the support the amazing amount of support that came from the outside, in, by support, I mean,

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organizational support for the organizing

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In Arizona that came from,

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from the National, the labor organizing network from Andy lawns, specifically, because

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I lived in Arizona, the whole time doing research on immigration, it just happens to be. So I remember that when I started doing research on immigration in Arizona, the there was no really there were no Immigrant Rights Organizations there. There were, I contacted everyone, and people were more interested in dealing with

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issues that concern all Latinos in in the state and the organizers, you focus on the Bustamante and Ortega. They were really they were, they were doing a lot, but they were not involved with immigrants at all. It was only in parallel fashion, maybe with what happened with our file, it was only around 2005 2006 with a big March that can kind of a switch came on. And they started to,

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to to join what the what some catalyst can see several lists that it very close collaboration with MD lon were trying to we're actually implementing with the ground. So I wonder where you place and belong, and the support the really critical infrastructure that they put in place for this activism to happen actually,

46:49

I actually took some of my students to interview immigrants for the case. And we we got together internet theaters offices with similar restaurants, because that's the only place that was there was really seem to be dynamic and interesting at that time. So um, so that Yeah, so I wanted to ask about how you place the the, the outside infrastructural support that came to make this possible. Yeah, I think that's a great point, I think I think you're absolutely right, I think if to the end Alon is the sort of outside force that that mattered to the to the story and,

47:31

and they were really kind of behind the scenes, but it's my understanding and supporting Salvador, Raisa was a main figure in the book. And they were also involved in in one of the key lawsuits against our Pio. And they were also

47:49

one of the real turning points in the publicity campaign. And Ilan was very instrumental in raising the profile of what was going on in Arizona in 2009. So basically, 2009 is this transition period, where Obama is in office becomes into office, and all of a sudden in Arizona, they, they have a democratic administration for the first time in their fight against our Pio. And they want to create national momentum and attention on this in the hopes that the Justice Department will investigate and that, you know, national media will pay attention and I think through and Alon networks, there's a New York Times opinion writer who starts writing Lawrence down starts writing op eds, or opinion pieces about what's happening in in Arizona, under our Pio also, and Alon helps coordinate for there to be a Judiciary Committee hearing on 287 G, which features witnesses who talk about Arizona, that ends up being a precursor to the Justice Department announcing that they will investigate our pireaus office. And so so we see underlined playing this really important supportive role, kind of being this like DC savvy,

49:12

behind the scenes, helping of activists on the ground. And and up to speak to your other point about 2006. We see that as a turning point as well, the the national wave of immigrant rights marches in response to the sensenbrenner bill that happened nationally, in Arizona and Phoenix, it ends up being this real coming together of all these different groups that were doing different things and hadn't necessarily been focused on immigration. But they all come together and form a new coalition, which they call somos. America after the name of the National Coalition for that March.

49:49

And that group sticks together and winds up kind of putting their focus on our Pio after that March and, and they actually end up somos Americas is a plant

50:00

In both the melendrez case, as well as the case challenging the the human smuggling policy that allowed our Pio to arrest migrants for smuggling themselves, and that's one of the first things that's almost America does as a new coalition working on the ground. And what's interesting is, you know, I think your reflection that earlier on some of these same activists weren't interested in immigrant issues. And then there was a turning point. I think for them, they also felt that they were people like Danny Ortega felt like the rest of the community wasn't necessary. The rest of Latino leadership or other Latino community members weren't as early to join the immigrant rights push that there was a lag there. I think, in his mind, he thinks that it took it took a few years for for them to see things really ramping up with Senate Bill 1070. And other factors for it to feel the feeling to be more widespread that this is an issue that impacts us all. It's not only an immigrant issue, but that that sensibility was something that he and Lydia Guzman and Alfredo Gutierrez really had in common that they were born in this country and kind of immediately identified and saw their fate as linked to the undocumented community as well. Okay, Terry, do you want to pick up anything? No, I'm just looking at these awesome questions in the q&a. Okay, so let's start with them. Why don't we do that? And then we can come back. So let me read the first question. So the entire audience can see. Do you know if our pie was also this from Angela Salazar? Do you know if I'm probably was also using the Phoenix Police Department to help with his initiative? Was there any investigation into it? I remember seeing sheriffs in West Phoenix doing sweeps and housing complexes in the early 2000s. Um, that's a really wonderful question. Our pile as Maricopa County Sheriff, first of all, for those of you who don't know, Maricopa County, it is the state's most populous county, and it is basically Phoenix and the suburbs and then some unincorporated areas. So our Pio is miracle per County Sheriff had the authority by law by Arizona law to be able to police the entire county. So if you saw him one place, you know, where they already had a police department. That doesn't necessarily mean he was working with those police it he might have, but he also had the authority to go anyplace he wanted. And he he generally went he sometimes it turned out in court that he went whereas tipsters suggested he go,

52:58

this early sweep there, remember in my research, and it's not in my in the book, but in the early 2000s, our Pio did a massive sweep.

53:13

Not not to enforce immigration, but to

53:19

to arrest people in connection with

53:24

you know, tail tail lights going out, you know.

53:30

So, you know, some sort of minor driving infraction, and that got his stats up, but it was also in a Latino neighborhood. And I remember that the county attorney got really mad at him for it, and he sort of held back after that. So I think that might have been what you saw. And I'm sorry, that that you had to see it. I think what's also interesting to note is that because our Pio had so many different kinds of tactics and was going after immigrants, so specifically, that's where a lot of the organizing was against him. There was also organizing against Phoenix police department because they also had some policies about coordination with ice we, we didn't include that in the scope of our book because we had sort of too much to cram in. But it certainly Maricopa County Sheriff's office was not the only law enforcement agency that was also enforcing immigration that this kind of more backdoor immigration as a model called it. And so there was a long term issue with Phoenix PD as well. And when people like Lydia Guzman and others were looking for plaintiffs in this lawsuit, sometimes they would talk to people who had an experience that they felt was racial profiling, and then they would find out that it was a different law enforcement agency. It wasn't the sheriff's office. So it isn't to say that, you know that this issue of driving while brown people feeling targeted, did

55:00

Start with our Pio. And it sadly won't end with our Pio it and it was happening simultaneous and for decades and decades before these sweeps as well.

55:11

Okay, thank you. So now we'll question from maglie Larson. Congratulations for this book. I'm interested in knowing about Hispanic resistance net once. Now and I'm also curious about the actions and positions of the native Hispanic amazonians. We should not forget that this was land which belonged to Mexico is that people? Can you talk a little bit more about the expansion and dynamics of the Hispanic resistance today?

55:38

Dude, you want that one? I'm sure. Um, so hello, Mowgli. And the fact that this land was Mexico is something that we get into in this book because we think that you can't really talk about this history without that context and the long history of, of discrimination and disenfranchisement that's happened

56:07

to Mexican Americans and Arizona is a big piece of the context here. And I think that in terms of the the resistance today, I mean, that a lot of the the people that we introduced you to in the presentation, that who are the older generation of activists who were involved in the fight against our Pio have passed the baton and there's a younger generation of people in their 20s and 30s. dreamer, dreamers in Arizona at big been politically active here and have been organizing, since they were teenagers, as well as some of their allies. And so there's, there's a very dynamic group of people who, who are now in their 20s and 30s, and have 10 to 15 years of organizing experience because of the era that they grew up in. Some of them like Carlos Garcia, are now running for political office, and he's now in the Phoenix City Council. Raquel Turan is another activist who, who came out of the movement who is now the head of the Arizona Democratic Party, and is a state legislator. And so we're seeing we're seeing a new generation rise, both on the organizing side and on the elected officials side. And, and they're taking on a range of issues, things like

57:31

things that include workers rights, as well as unconstitutional policing beyond the immigration context.

57:40

Okay, thank you. So now, a question from Barbara Miller. The vital policing is not over with the 2020 election, Arizona is not blue like California, there was a pivot to voter suppression with the Trump republicans and control of the state government, as they attempt to control the election process itself. Are these activists against police action,

58:02

turning their attention to the fight against voter suppression.

58:07

Barbara, thank you so much for that question. And you are so right.

58:12

Arizona, squeaked into blue just barely. With just you know, Biden didn't win by a lot. And we have two democratic senators who are often accused of being mainstream Republican senators for some of their stances.

58:32

So So yeah, so you're right.

58:37

Arizona is not blue, like California, we do have

58:42

a very strong

58:45

and active indigenous vote. And we have a very strong and active latino vote. And we have,

58:53

you know, more as, as Phoenix grows, the urban areas become popular and popular in the Phoenix area. Now about about what's going on right now with Trump loyalists and the county election.

59:12

I have not followed that super closely, except for what I read in the papers. I haven't reported on it. But um, I know that certainly there are activists who are, you know, Latino activists who are extremely concerned about this. And

59:33

it's interesting because I think that as the movement goes forward there, there are lots of opportunities for intersectionality. Now that we're in a time of reckoning, and there are so many non Latinos and Arizona ins who are not of color who want to join, join in this movement and offer their support. So

1:00:00

So that's a very long winded way of saying some in the movement are, are definitely concerned and involved with the fight against voter suppression. And

1:00:14

hopefully the movement will only grow and grow. And yes, we can good and it shouldn't be their attendance shouldn't be their attention. You are right, Barbara. And I could just add that to be specific. Lydia Guzman, who is featured as one of the main figures in the book, she personally is her next big push that she'll be working on is redistricting, which ties directly into some of these issues.

1:00:42

Okay, terrific. I think that this brings all the questions to an end. I don't know whether I'm invite any further questions from the audience. Another few seconds. But if not, then why don't we bring the session to a close I want to thank Terry and Jude for this terrific presentation, congratulations on your on on your book. It's clearly going to attract a wide readership thanks to a mother for a very stimulating comment. And thanks again to for everyone, for joining us this afternoon. And in closing, I just want to remind you that we have another session

1:01:23

next Friday at 12. Featuring a book by Julie climate adventure capital migration in the making of an African hub in Paris. Okay, everyone, have a good weekend and hope to see you next Friday. Okay, and thanks.