0:00:00.880,0:00:04.240

well uh great to be here wherever here

0:00:03.760,0:00:07.279

is

0:00:04.240,0:00:09.120

uh for for each of you and

0:00:07.279,0:00:11.040

i i didn't realize this was just one of

0:00:09.120,0:00:12.320

three so it's it's quite an honor to be

0:00:11.040,0:00:15.599

doing this

0:00:12.320,0:00:17.199

walter nichols cecilia manhila and

0:00:15.599,0:00:18.640

daniel oliver have written a really

0:00:17.199,0:00:21.119

interesting paper

0:00:18.640,0:00:22.560

uh i'm a fan of a lot of walter and

0:00:21.119,0:00:25.439

cecilia's other

0:00:22.560,0:00:26.800

work i i don't know daniel's other work

0:00:25.439,0:00:29.439

uh so i was i

0:00:26.800,0:00:31.039

i'm really looking forward to to sort of

0:00:29.439,0:00:32.399

having this discussion i hope i can do

0:00:31.039,0:00:34.480

justice to the paper

0:00:32.399,0:00:36.239

so theoretically anybody who's here has

0:00:34.480,0:00:36.719

read the paper but let me remind you of

0:00:36.239,0:00:40.320

the

0:00:36.719,0:00:42.079

the basic story tonganoxie is a rural

0:00:40.320,0:00:45.760

kansas town

0:00:42.079,0:00:46.480

uh a few more than 5 000 people and 2017

0:00:45.760,0:00:49.120

the governor

0:00:46.480,0:00:50.879

and uh local politicians announced with

0:00:49.120,0:00:51.840

much fanfare that there was going to be

0:00:50.879,0:00:54.320

a huge

0:00:51.840,0:00:56.239

tyson chicken processing plant built

0:00:54.320,0:00:59.440

just south of the town

0:00:56.239,0:01:00.719

uh and within several weeks the plan had

0:00:59.440,0:01:03.840

been scuttled

0:01:00.719,0:01:06.479

uh by a massive protest movement

0:01:03.840,0:01:07.360

of people from the town that among other

0:01:06.479,0:01:09.280

things had

0:01:07.360,0:01:11.360

mobilized more than half the town in

0:01:09.280,0:01:12.080

demonstrations uh but there was a bunch

0:01:11.360,0:01:14.640

of other dimensions

0:01:12.080,0:01:15.840

as well so the puzzle is how did the

0:01:14.640,0:01:18.080

townsfolk win

0:01:15.840,0:01:18.880

especially given that the town is a mix

0:01:18.080,0:01:21.680

of

0:01:18.880,0:01:24.000

long-term rural residents and newly

0:01:21.680,0:01:26.159

transplanted ex-urban professionals

0:01:24.000,0:01:27.600

with not too many ties between the two

0:01:26.159,0:01:29.920

groups

0:01:27.600,0:01:31.439

the authors offer a very clear

0:01:29.920,0:01:34.159

three-part answer

0:01:31.439,0:01:35.759

first the newly arrived professionals

0:01:34.159,0:01:39.759

brought added resources

0:01:35.759,0:01:42.720

and quote civic skills to the fight

0:01:39.759,0:01:44.560

second uh the townspeople adopted a

0:01:42.720,0:01:46.960

strong unifying frame

0:01:44.560,0:01:48.880

that of defending an unspoiled

0:01:46.960,0:01:51.600

neighborly rural idol

0:01:48.880,0:01:53.520

from both demographic and environmental

0:01:51.600,0:01:55.920

contamination

0:01:53.520,0:01:58.000

and third the movement combined

0:01:55.920,0:01:59.439

long-standing social networks with new

0:01:58.000,0:02:00.640

networks that were built quickly on

0:01:59.439,0:02:02.640

social media

0:02:00.640,0:02:03.840

to link up and mobilize most of the

0:02:02.640,0:02:05.840

population

0:02:03.840,0:02:08.239

i would actually argue that both sets of

0:02:05.840,0:02:10.640

ties were more bridging than bonding

0:02:08.239,0:02:12.400

but i would agree with the authors that

0:02:10.640,0:02:13.840

the long-standing ties were certainly

0:02:12.400,0:02:16.640

stronger than the new

0:02:13.840,0:02:18.160

uh social media ties so this is a

0:02:16.640,0:02:19.840

compelling argument

0:02:18.160,0:02:21.520

uh part of what makes it particularly

0:02:19.840,0:02:24.080

interesting in this moment

0:02:21.520,0:02:25.440

is that it sheds additional light on the

0:02:24.080,0:02:28.720

trump phenomenon which

0:02:25.440,0:02:32.160

is a lot about white rural communities

0:02:28.720,0:02:35.440

uh resisting what they see as

0:02:32.160,0:02:38.560

as a demographic contamination

0:02:35.440,0:02:40.319

and so understanding that that racism is

0:02:38.560,0:02:41.840

is part of what makes this paper

0:02:40.319,0:02:44.879

exciting uh

0:02:41.840,0:02:47.599

and it's also a nice use of of mixed

0:02:44.879,0:02:49.360

qualitative methods

0:02:47.599,0:02:51.120

from my reading the paper is less in

0:02:49.360,0:02:52.319

conversation with the migration

0:02:51.120,0:02:53.280

literature than with three other

0:02:52.319,0:02:56.239

literatures

0:02:53.280,0:02:57.760

a literature on on race and ethnicity a

0:02:56.239,0:02:59.599

literature on urban

0:02:57.760,0:03:01.599

and community studies and a social

0:02:59.599,0:03:04.720

movements literature

0:03:01.599,0:03:05.519

and i i hasten to add that it's totally

0:03:04.720,0:03:08.480

appropriate

0:03:05.519,0:03:09.040

to have this as part of the csim uh

0:03:08.480,0:03:11.440

series

0:03:09.040,0:03:13.120

i mean since since part of the center's

0:03:11.440,0:03:15.200

mission is really to place place

0:03:13.120,0:03:16.800

migration in a broader context

0:03:15.200,0:03:18.640

and the leadership of the center you

0:03:16.800,0:03:22.800

know against credit for

0:03:18.640,0:03:25.200

for for thinking of migration broadly uh

0:03:22.800,0:03:26.720

nicholas menhivat and and alvard

0:03:25.200,0:03:28.319

repeatedly assure us

0:03:26.720,0:03:29.680

that they're just analyzing this case

0:03:28.319,0:03:31.120

they're they're not attempting to make

0:03:29.680,0:03:32.799

general claims

0:03:31.120,0:03:34.640

but since i don't have to pass muster

0:03:32.799,0:03:36.080

with referees i'm actually going to

0:03:34.640,0:03:39.120

argue that this is

0:03:36.080,0:03:40.799

uh actually a pretty generalizable

0:03:39.120,0:03:42.080

pattern in some ways

0:03:40.799,0:03:44.319

i mean they do point out that there have

0:03:42.080,0:03:45.040

been a bunch of copycat movements in

0:03:44.319,0:03:47.680

other

0:03:45.040,0:03:48.400

localities uh but but i'm going to say

0:03:47.680,0:03:51.599

yeah this is

0:03:48.400,0:03:52.159

this is not just a uh rural opposition

0:03:51.599,0:03:55.120

to

0:03:52.159,0:03:56.159

to meat processing plants story this is

0:03:55.120,0:03:59.760

a story that's

0:03:56.159,0:04:02.560

um neither quite as um

0:03:59.760,0:04:03.840

distinctive or surprising as as they

0:04:02.560,0:04:05.840

might claim

0:04:03.840,0:04:07.519

uh and i'm going to argue this with

0:04:05.840,0:04:09.760

reference to the three literatures that

0:04:07.519,0:04:14.239

i just mentioned

0:04:09.760,0:04:17.359

so let me start with the the rural idol

0:04:14.239,0:04:20.079

uh there's this perspective

0:04:17.359,0:04:22.079

of sort of defending a rural idol

0:04:20.079,0:04:25.120

actually resonates a lot

0:04:22.079,0:04:28.160

with uh with the analysis

0:04:25.120,0:04:31.440

of what eduardo bonilla silva calls uh

0:04:28.160,0:04:32.960

colorblind racism and what larry bobo

0:04:31.440,0:04:34.639

calls let's say fair racism and there's

0:04:32.960,0:04:38.080

a bunch of other names for it

0:04:34.639,0:04:40.880

but this is a world view that

0:04:38.080,0:04:43.280

reasons that since the explicit legal

0:04:40.880,0:04:45.199

barriers to black and brown people have

0:04:43.280,0:04:48.160

been removed

0:04:45.199,0:04:49.919

therefore any continuing problems of

0:04:48.160,0:04:52.320

these populations have to

0:04:49.919,0:04:53.520

be the result of the failings of these

0:04:52.320,0:04:57.040

populations and

0:04:53.520,0:04:59.919

a common white perspective within this

0:04:57.040,0:05:01.120

uh viewpoint is to point to rundown

0:04:59.919,0:05:03.520

conditions

0:05:01.120,0:05:04.479

uh high crime in in black and brown

0:05:03.520,0:05:07.280

communities

0:05:04.479,0:05:07.680

and say i have nothing against them but

0:05:07.280,0:05:09.759

uh

0:05:07.680,0:05:11.600

i don't want that to come to my

0:05:09.759,0:05:15.120

community

0:05:11.600,0:05:18.880

and it's framed as concern or fear

0:05:15.120,0:05:21.759

rather than antipathy and of course

0:05:18.880,0:05:23.280

this variety of racism is strongly

0:05:21.759,0:05:24.400

reinforced by the high level of

0:05:23.280,0:05:25.759

segregation

0:05:24.400,0:05:28.560

in the united states which has two

0:05:25.759,0:05:32.240

consequences one is that there are

0:05:28.560,0:05:34.240

uh black ghettos and and brown barrios

0:05:32.240,0:05:35.520

uh that are relatively concentrated that

0:05:34.240,0:05:38.560

that form the alleged

0:05:35.520,0:05:41.360

evidence base uh this

0:05:38.560,0:05:42.000

this uh this line of argument and

0:05:41.360,0:05:43.440

secondly

0:05:42.000,0:05:45.280

there's a lot of white people who have

0:05:43.440,0:05:47.360

little meaningful contact with

0:05:45.280,0:05:49.919

with a black or brown people and or in

0:05:47.360,0:05:52.560

some cases any any people of color

0:05:49.919,0:05:54.000

bonilla silva bobo and and other uh

0:05:52.560,0:05:55.919

scholars of race

0:05:54.000,0:05:57.759

argue that this is the dominant form of

0:05:55.919,0:06:00.560

racist attitudes today

0:05:57.759,0:06:01.199

and a consequence of this uh i i would

0:06:00.560,0:06:03.199

argue is

0:06:01.199,0:06:05.199

is that it's not just rural areas that

0:06:03.199,0:06:08.160

are represented as unspoiled

0:06:05.199,0:06:10.240

idol so i'm going to quote from a 1974

0:06:08.160,0:06:13.039

supreme court decision

0:06:10.240,0:06:14.880

upholding exclusionary zoning that

0:06:13.039,0:06:15.600

basically applies the same frame to the

0:06:14.880,0:06:18.720

suburbs

0:06:15.600,0:06:20.000

quote it is ample to lay out zones where

0:06:18.720,0:06:22.000

family values youth

0:06:20.000,0:06:24.000

values and the blessings of quiet

0:06:22.000,0:06:26.319

seclusion and clean air make the area a

0:06:24.000,0:06:29.600

sanctuary for people

0:06:26.319,0:06:32.800

if you read juan de la's book

0:06:29.600,0:06:35.520

inland shift you'll hear the voices of

0:06:32.800,0:06:37.039

of suburban san bernardino county and

0:06:35.520,0:06:40.400

riverside county

0:06:37.039,0:06:43.600

residents much more recently making

0:06:40.400,0:06:46.000

ex very similar arguments the ones that

0:06:43.600,0:06:47.280

that uh you hear the the residents of

0:06:46.000,0:06:49.360

tonganoxie

0:06:47.280,0:06:50.560

making and i've heard very similar

0:06:49.360,0:06:53.440

voices in

0:06:50.560,0:06:54.560

my own definitely urban the low-density

0:06:53.440,0:06:57.759

neighborhood of

0:06:54.560,0:06:59.199

venice uh i've been advocating for

0:06:57.759,0:07:00.160

low-income and permanent supportive

0:06:59.199,0:07:02.160

housing in

0:07:00.160,0:07:04.080

in public hearings and on the the next

0:07:02.160,0:07:05.520

door forum online

0:07:04.080,0:07:07.280

uh i imagine a lot of people are

0:07:05.520,0:07:09.680

familiar with nextdoor if you're not

0:07:07.280,0:07:11.759

i really recommend the work of raheem

0:07:09.680,0:07:14.800

kirwa who's a recent uh

0:07:11.759,0:07:17.280

phd in sociology from ucla who did some

0:07:14.800,0:07:18.160

analysis of of next door and the ways

0:07:17.280,0:07:21.520

that it

0:07:18.160,0:07:24.400

um it sort of perpetuates racist tropes

0:07:21.520,0:07:24.960

but anyway so so my neighbors in venice

0:07:24.400,0:07:27.199

are

0:07:24.960,0:07:29.280

are basically voicing very similar

0:07:27.199,0:07:30.000

arguments uh for example opposing what

0:07:29.280,0:07:33.120

they describe

0:07:30.000,0:07:35.919

as a towering three-story

0:07:33.120,0:07:37.680

project that would defile an unspoiled

0:07:35.919,0:07:40.080

municipal parking lot

0:07:37.680,0:07:41.039

and threaten our our peaceful paradise

0:07:40.080,0:07:42.960

in venice

0:07:41.039,0:07:44.639

so idols can be rural they can be

0:07:42.960,0:07:47.840

suburban and even urban

0:07:44.639,0:07:51.199

all drawing on very similar discourses

0:07:47.840,0:07:53.599

so that's a good segue to the uh

0:07:51.199,0:07:55.120

urban studies and planning literature

0:07:53.599,0:07:57.039

and

0:07:55.120,0:07:58.319

the the forms of opposition explored in

0:07:57.039,0:08:01.120

this paper

0:07:58.319,0:08:02.720

are fairly well studied in uh the

0:08:01.120,0:08:05.919

literature on nimbys

0:08:02.720,0:08:09.440

not in my backyard movements or

0:08:05.919,0:08:12.000

or or sort of protests and lulu's

0:08:09.440,0:08:13.599

uh locally unwanted land uses so lulu's

0:08:12.000,0:08:14.960

tend to include things like prisons

0:08:13.599,0:08:17.360

incinerators

0:08:14.960,0:08:19.120

but also uh as as i just mentioned

0:08:17.360,0:08:22.639

low-income housing

0:08:19.120,0:08:24.960

uh and uh

0:08:22.639,0:08:26.720

so there's a literature on on nimbys and

0:08:24.960,0:08:27.919

lulu's there's also

0:08:26.720,0:08:30.639

sort of the flip side of the coin which

0:08:27.919,0:08:34.240

is the environmental justice literature

0:08:30.639,0:08:36.880

uh and uh a lot of this literature

0:08:34.240,0:08:37.360

emphasizes two points the first is that

0:08:36.880,0:08:40.080

there

0:08:37.360,0:08:41.039

there is often a racial as well as class

0:08:40.080,0:08:43.839

subtext

0:08:41.039,0:08:44.399

to opposition to lulu's as the article

0:08:43.839,0:08:47.519

as the

0:08:44.399,0:08:50.640

authors are showing this particular case

0:08:47.519,0:08:52.560

second uh racial and class privilege

0:08:50.640,0:08:54.000

and the resources that come with it

0:08:52.560,0:08:56.720

decisively shape

0:08:54.000,0:08:58.320

where things do get built uh and this is

0:08:56.720,0:08:59.760

the central point of the environmental

0:08:58.320,0:09:01.519

justice literature

0:08:59.760,0:09:03.760

i don't know how many times i've heard i

0:09:01.519,0:09:05.120

i hope you'll sort of indulge me talking

0:09:03.760,0:09:06.320

about my own neighborhood

0:09:05.120,0:09:08.880

i don't know how many times i've heard

0:09:06.320,0:09:11.600

some of my neighbors say that low income

0:09:08.880,0:09:13.200

and homeless people don't deserve to be

0:09:11.600,0:09:14.720

in our neighborhood such a nice

0:09:13.200,0:09:18.160

high-priced neighborhood

0:09:14.720,0:09:22.720

and indeed most new low-income housing

0:09:18.160,0:09:25.360

is being built still in uh low-income

0:09:22.720,0:09:28.080

communities of color so at least when it

0:09:25.360,0:09:29.200

comes to some types of locally unwanted

0:09:28.080,0:09:30.480

land uses

0:09:29.200,0:09:32.240

wide-angle communities have been

0:09:30.480,0:09:35.519

relatively successful

0:09:32.240,0:09:36.640

in blocking them so i i want to close by

0:09:35.519,0:09:39.519

saying well then

0:09:36.640,0:09:40.399

how hard is it to stop projects of this

0:09:39.519,0:09:42.080

kind

0:09:40.399,0:09:43.440

here the social movements literature is

0:09:42.080,0:09:45.600

particularly relevant

0:09:43.440,0:09:46.640

uh and the authors cite mcadam and

0:09:45.600,0:09:50.160

boude's

0:09:46.640,0:09:51.760

book on uh resistance to energy projects

0:09:50.160,0:09:55.040

to the effect that there are formidable

0:09:51.760,0:09:57.680

obstacles to such resistance movements

0:09:55.040,0:09:59.920

i unfortunately haven't read the book i

0:09:57.680,0:10:02.480

i did have a chance to dip into some of

0:09:59.920,0:10:03.519

hillary boude's articles she's done a

0:10:02.480,0:10:06.079

lot of analysis

0:10:03.519,0:10:08.560

of opposition to liquefied natural gas

0:10:06.079,0:10:12.240

facilities

0:10:08.560,0:10:15.040

and which are a classic lulu her 2015

0:10:12.240,0:10:18.079

article in the mit journal projections

0:10:15.040,0:10:21.120

has a useful synthesis of this work and

0:10:18.079,0:10:22.160

one first point is that since the early

0:10:21.120,0:10:25.600

2000s

0:10:22.160,0:10:26.800

50 liquid national natural gas terminals

0:10:25.600,0:10:29.040

have been proposed

0:10:26.800,0:10:31.279

a total of seven have been built uh

0:10:29.040,0:10:32.640

that's a pretty successful scorecard for

0:10:31.279,0:10:35.519

resistance movements

0:10:32.640,0:10:37.120

now obviously a lot more poultry plants

0:10:35.519,0:10:38.880

have been built or all of us wouldn't be

0:10:37.120,0:10:41.120

eating as much chicken as we do

0:10:38.880,0:10:44.079

so so there's i mean i'm not arguing

0:10:41.120,0:10:47.120

this is a completely uniform story

0:10:44.079,0:10:48.720

but but perhaps more importantly uh or

0:10:47.120,0:10:51.360

at least more interestingly

0:10:48.720,0:10:52.959

boude identifies what has led to

0:10:51.360,0:10:53.839

successful versus unsuccessful

0:10:52.959,0:10:57.040

resistance

0:10:53.839,0:10:59.040

in her focus on the lng facilities and

0:10:57.040,0:11:00.160

she identifies three types of success

0:10:59.040,0:11:03.120

factors

0:11:00.160,0:11:03.839

first is the level of threat to a

0:11:03.120,0:11:06.800

community

0:11:03.839,0:11:07.279

uh the proximity to a community and the

0:11:06.800,0:11:09.040

the

0:11:07.279,0:11:10.880

sort of level or degree of of the

0:11:09.040,0:11:12.959

perceived disability

0:11:10.880,0:11:14.079

the second success factor is political

0:11:12.959,0:11:16.320

opportunity

0:11:14.079,0:11:17.920

which she defines as uh access to

0:11:16.320,0:11:19.920

officials and or

0:11:17.920,0:11:21.200

sort of accessible institutional

0:11:19.920,0:11:24.160

channels uh

0:11:21.200,0:11:25.200

uh for for intervention number three is

0:11:24.160,0:11:27.600

resources

0:11:25.200,0:11:29.680

this for her as for many uh social

0:11:27.600,0:11:31.440

movement scholars is a broad category

0:11:29.680,0:11:33.440

but she puts particular emphasis on

0:11:31.440,0:11:34.480

social networks and middle class civic

0:11:33.440,0:11:37.279

skills

0:11:34.480,0:11:38.880

uh and in her sample either one either

0:11:37.279,0:11:41.440

strong social networks

0:11:38.880,0:11:42.079

or uh the the sort of middle class civic

0:11:41.440,0:11:44.720

skills

0:11:42.079,0:11:46.079

can be sufficient to successfully stop

0:11:44.720,0:11:47.839

one of these projects

0:11:46.079,0:11:49.600

uh but the strongest movements draw on

0:11:47.839,0:11:52.079

both

0:11:49.600,0:11:53.760

so a few points about uh buddha's

0:11:52.079,0:11:57.360

generalizations

0:11:53.760,0:11:59.440

what buday classifies his resources

0:11:57.360,0:12:01.120

show close alignment with the factors

0:11:59.440,0:12:04.639

that that nicholas

0:12:01.120,0:12:08.079

mentioned and um and albert are

0:12:04.639,0:12:10.720

are are uh spotlighting buddha pays

0:12:08.079,0:12:12.240

less attention to framing uh which in

0:12:10.720,0:12:13.680

fact is generally a weakness

0:12:12.240,0:12:15.839

of the political process theory

0:12:13.680,0:12:17.120

associated with mcadam and others

0:12:15.839,0:12:20.160

uh so i think it's a strength of the

0:12:17.120,0:12:22.800

paper that that um

0:12:20.160,0:12:23.680

that it also brings in framing more on

0:12:22.800,0:12:25.519

the other hand

0:12:23.680,0:12:27.680

she emphasizes threat level and

0:12:25.519,0:12:30.560

political opportunity which nichols

0:12:27.680,0:12:31.839

at al's paper more or less uh takes is

0:12:30.560,0:12:35.360

given

0:12:31.839,0:12:36.480

so to wrap things up uh and try to put

0:12:35.360,0:12:39.200

the pieces together

0:12:36.480,0:12:40.079

as best i can i've argued that the

0:12:39.200,0:12:43.040

articles

0:12:40.079,0:12:44.560

three findings three main findings are

0:12:43.040,0:12:46.560

are somewhat familiar ones

0:12:44.560,0:12:48.880

but each is familiar in a distinct

0:12:46.560,0:12:50.079

literature and i come away thinking that

0:12:48.880,0:12:52.880

the paper's

0:12:50.079,0:12:55.040

most important contribution is to put

0:12:52.880,0:12:56.399

these three sets of processes together

0:12:55.040,0:12:59.600

in this case study

0:12:56.399,0:13:01.519

uh and arguably uh in a way that's

0:12:59.600,0:13:02.959

relevant to to quite a large set of

0:13:01.519,0:13:06.079

cases

0:13:02.959,0:13:07.360

so uh again

0:13:06.079,0:13:08.800

thanks for the opportunity to comment

0:13:07.360,0:13:09.440

i'm looking forward to hearing from the

0:13:08.800,0:13:14.000

authors

0:13:09.440,0:13:14.000

and uh and hearing the discussion thanks

0:13:19.360,0:13:26.399

thank you thank you chris for for your

0:13:23.200,0:13:29.920

thoughtful reading of the paper and

0:13:26.399,0:13:34.079

i think we can um one of the

0:13:29.920,0:13:37.760

um the questions is

0:13:34.079,0:13:40.320

why what one of the points that

0:13:37.760,0:13:44.320

attracted us to this case

0:13:40.320,0:13:47.760

was the how fast

0:13:44.320,0:13:51.920

the the mobilization moved

0:13:47.760,0:13:54.320

it it started in mid-september

0:13:51.920,0:13:55.519

and in a matter of weeks they were

0:13:54.320,0:13:58.800

organized

0:13:55.519,0:14:00.800

and in a matter of months a few months

0:13:58.800,0:14:02.079

two three months they had stopped the

0:14:00.800,0:14:05.279

project from

0:14:02.079,0:14:08.959

from being implemented so it was

0:14:05.279,0:14:12.160

that that the the fast

0:14:08.959,0:14:14.000

way that all these networks and all

0:14:12.160,0:14:16.880

these elements came together

0:14:14.000,0:14:18.079

that really was sociologically

0:14:16.880,0:14:21.680

interesting

0:14:18.079,0:14:23.839

to to look into and so um and you were

0:14:21.680,0:14:25.839

mentioning some of the parallels that

0:14:23.839,0:14:27.680

you see in urban areas

0:14:25.839,0:14:28.959

with some of the same factors and the

0:14:27.680,0:14:31.839

same elements

0:14:28.959,0:14:32.959

operating there and so i was wondering

0:14:31.839,0:14:36.240

if

0:14:32.959,0:14:36.240

in an urban area

0:14:36.399,0:14:42.880

um the same

0:14:39.600,0:14:46.880

fast outcome

0:14:42.880,0:14:47.760

would be possible with the with similar

0:14:46.880,0:14:51.600

elements

0:14:47.760,0:14:55.519

i'm acting there as well because um

0:14:51.600,0:14:58.399

that that's that was one of the the most

0:14:55.519,0:14:58.959

interesting aspects of the of the tongan

0:14:58.399,0:15:02.079

oxy

0:14:58.959,0:15:04.480

thing that um the networks the

0:15:02.079,0:15:08.320

combination of networks

0:15:04.480,0:15:12.240

all of that is there but the they were

0:15:08.320,0:15:14.240

sort of in concentrated form and um so i

0:15:12.240,0:15:18.800

was wondering if

0:15:14.240,0:15:21.839

the this initial sociological in

0:15:18.800,0:15:25.440

question can also be found in a

0:15:21.839,0:15:26.560

in an urban area where um this process

0:15:25.440,0:15:29.600

may unfold

0:15:26.560,0:15:32.720

in a longer period of time and

0:15:29.600,0:15:33.360

the concentration of of these different

0:15:32.720,0:15:37.279

factors

0:15:33.360,0:15:37.759

may not be as immediately effective as

0:15:37.279,0:15:41.839

it

0:15:37.759,0:15:41.839

seemed to have been in tonganoxie

0:15:44.480,0:15:50.639

um could i add to that really quickly um

0:15:47.759,0:15:51.920

so i mean one of the and i'd like to um

0:15:50.639,0:15:53.759

follow up on what cecilia was just

0:15:51.920,0:15:55.600

saying that that what was remarkable

0:15:53.759,0:15:56.160

about this isn't just mobilization per

0:15:55.600,0:15:58.160

se so

0:15:56.160,0:15:59.360

i've seen a ton of nimby mobilizations

0:15:58.160,0:16:02.399

in which you have

0:15:59.360,0:16:03.199

30 residents um out of a population of

0:16:02.399,0:16:04.800

say you know

0:16:03.199,0:16:07.360

10 000 within a neighborhood who

0:16:04.800,0:16:08.240

mobilized no um and then there's 30 or

0:16:07.360,0:16:11.120

40 people

0:16:08.240,0:16:12.800

are are very vocal and have an impact on

0:16:11.120,0:16:15.120

the policy-making process of

0:16:12.800,0:16:16.800

of communities now here what was what

0:16:15.120,0:16:19.040

was impressive was that

0:16:16.800,0:16:21.440

it involved almost the majority of the

0:16:19.040,0:16:22.800

town so it was a totalizing mobilization

0:16:21.440,0:16:25.040

that involved

0:16:22.800,0:16:26.480

everybody in the town and turn and and

0:16:25.040,0:16:28.320

in the process of creating not only

0:16:26.480,0:16:29.199

these these types of all-encompassing

0:16:28.320,0:16:31.759

networks

0:16:29.199,0:16:32.639

but also even in when you drove into the

0:16:31.759,0:16:34.720

town it was

0:16:32.639,0:16:36.399

saturated with these signs so this was

0:16:34.720,0:16:37.040

this was what was sort of unique about

0:16:36.399,0:16:38.720

this

0:16:37.040,0:16:40.639

wasn't necessarily just that it was

0:16:38.720,0:16:43.360

another nimby mobilization but

0:16:40.639,0:16:44.720

it's it was it's very very sort of high

0:16:43.360,0:16:47.279

like extremely high mobilization

0:16:44.720,0:16:48.880

capacity that that's that's fairly rare

0:16:47.279,0:16:50.320

um and i think that that's one of the

0:16:48.880,0:16:52.720

things that we can see

0:16:50.320,0:16:54.399

um that's distinctive of the of a sort

0:16:52.720,0:16:56.240

of a rural context versus an urban

0:16:54.399,0:16:56.880

context in an urban context but we would

0:16:56.240,0:16:59.440

see

0:16:56.880,0:17:01.199

uh are a bunch of sort of weak ties and

0:16:59.440,0:17:02.959

then a few strong ties

0:17:01.199,0:17:04.640

amongst the most most vocal neighbors

0:17:02.959,0:17:05.839

who participate in the types of groups

0:17:04.640,0:17:07.120

that you're talking about these facebook

0:17:05.839,0:17:08.880

groups and stuff like that

0:17:07.120,0:17:10.240

and these people have that tendency of

0:17:08.880,0:17:12.000

setting the agendas

0:17:10.240,0:17:14.319

but in these rural contexts what happens

0:17:12.000,0:17:16.480

is that it's it's very expansive

0:17:14.319,0:17:17.839

um and that was one of the sort of

0:17:16.480,0:17:18.959

things that we're trying to explain it's

0:17:17.839,0:17:20.559

not just the the

0:17:18.959,0:17:22.079

sort of that these things happen all the

0:17:20.559,0:17:23.919

time but the the

0:17:22.079,0:17:25.360

the fact that you know three thousand

0:17:23.919,0:17:26.880

two thousand five hundred people three

0:17:25.360,0:17:29.039

thousand people out of a population of

0:17:26.880,0:17:31.280

five thousand were showing up to this

0:17:29.039,0:17:32.559

um and for that where we we use sort of

0:17:31.280,0:17:34.400

a network analysis

0:17:32.559,0:17:36.480

and we combined it and we said that a

0:17:34.400,0:17:39.360

powerful thing was this racialized

0:17:36.480,0:17:40.720

um this racialized rural rural idol and

0:17:39.360,0:17:41.919

i think that what's interesting about

0:17:40.720,0:17:44.240

the rural idol is

0:17:41.919,0:17:46.240

is the fact that it does have um it does

0:17:44.240,0:17:48.160

reflect this type of colorblind but it

0:17:46.240,0:17:48.880

also draws upon a sort of a discursive

0:17:48.160,0:17:51.120

repertoire

0:17:48.880,0:17:52.960

um that's also very distinct this idea

0:17:51.120,0:17:55.520

of a rural consciousness of being

0:17:52.960,0:17:56.160

constantly in battle with um sort of

0:17:55.520,0:17:57.840

urban

0:17:56.160,0:17:59.360

um outsiders i think that that's also

0:17:57.840,0:18:01.200

sort of very distinct and

0:17:59.360,0:18:02.960

and when these two things combine that

0:18:01.200,0:18:06.240

is the rural idol

0:18:02.960,0:18:06.240

or the the

0:18:06.480,0:18:11.600

sort of colorblind racism plus this

0:18:10.240,0:18:13.360

consciousness combined this creates a

0:18:11.600,0:18:15.520

very very powerful

0:18:13.360,0:18:16.559

imaginary or discursive repertoire that

0:18:15.520,0:18:20.320

that that really

0:18:16.559,0:18:22.799

is able to um frame disturbances

0:18:20.320,0:18:24.559

as as a threat so i think that that i

0:18:22.799,0:18:25.520

think i i totally i agree with you but

0:18:24.559,0:18:27.600

i'd like to just

0:18:25.520,0:18:28.880

just sort of say that the rule i mean

0:18:27.600,0:18:31.039

this is as an urban

0:18:28.880,0:18:32.799

as an urbanist and if somebody looks at

0:18:31.039,0:18:35.440

urban social movements a lot

0:18:32.799,0:18:36.640

um for me this was remarkable because

0:18:35.440,0:18:38.960

the fact that you know

0:18:36.640,0:18:40.799

this this did seem like you know if you

0:18:38.960,0:18:42.240

do normal urban sociology courses

0:18:40.799,0:18:43.919

there's the urban versus the rule this

0:18:42.240,0:18:45.520

is the basic sort of dichotomy of what

0:18:43.919,0:18:47.200

that we learned through cities

0:18:45.520,0:18:48.640

in this in this case i do think that

0:18:47.200,0:18:50.000

there was something distinctive about

0:18:48.640,0:18:52.160

the world but the rule is

0:18:50.000,0:18:54.160

sort of weird because of the fact that a

0:18:52.160,0:18:54.799

lot of what these people are mobilizing

0:18:54.160,0:18:56.880

for

0:18:54.799,0:18:58.000

they're ex-urbanites now they're they're

0:18:56.880,0:18:59.679

ex-urbanites and their

0:18:58.000,0:19:01.600

their the idea of the rules already

0:18:59.679,0:19:04.000

collapsed so they're battling

0:19:01.600,0:19:06.160

for this uh for this rural imaginary

0:19:04.000,0:19:09.200

that's like post-industrial

0:19:06.160,0:19:11.919

you know and that's that's weird um so

0:19:09.200,0:19:12.880

it's it's rural but but rural sort of

0:19:11.919,0:19:16.240

symbolically

0:19:12.880,0:19:16.240

and i think that matters so

0:19:20.080,0:19:25.840

okay one of the other author danny do

0:19:22.320,0:19:25.840

you want to comment

0:19:29.760,0:19:32.720

danny you're on mute

0:19:34.799,0:19:39.360

okay there we go yeah um

0:19:38.080,0:19:41.360

yeah the one thing i would just add i

0:19:39.360,0:19:43.760

mean i agree with both uh

0:19:41.360,0:19:46.000

what cecilia and walter added as far as

0:19:43.760,0:19:47.760

what's sort of interesting about this is

0:19:46.000,0:19:49.120

the speed that it happened in the sort

0:19:47.760,0:19:51.760

of totality

0:19:49.120,0:19:53.360

uh that it sort of encompassed and

0:19:51.760,0:19:54.400

walter's absolutely right about you know

0:19:53.360,0:19:56.400

when you walk when you

0:19:54.400,0:19:58.480

drove into the town just the saturation

0:19:56.400,0:20:01.039

of uh the sort of

0:19:58.480,0:20:02.559

signage and and bumper stickers i

0:20:01.039,0:20:04.480

actually have some just over here if you

0:20:02.559,0:20:06.000

want to see them i can do

0:20:04.480,0:20:08.480

show and tell i still have all my

0:20:06.000,0:20:12.000

tonganazi memorabilia

0:20:08.480,0:20:14.240

uh but you know

0:20:12.000,0:20:14.240

to

0:20:15.360,0:20:18.400

you know and i guess one one thing that

0:20:17.679,0:20:20.320

i did

0:20:18.400,0:20:21.919

want to add i guess to serious question

0:20:20.320,0:20:24.159

about the

0:20:21.919,0:20:24.960

out the fast outcomes in sort of urban

0:20:24.159,0:20:28.000

areas

0:20:24.960,0:20:31.120

one of the very interesting

0:20:28.000,0:20:33.840

parts of this was the

0:20:31.120,0:20:34.559

i guess what you could call bullying uh

0:20:33.840,0:20:37.039

that happened

0:20:34.559,0:20:37.600

as far as you know keeping people in

0:20:37.039,0:20:41.840

line

0:20:37.600,0:20:45.840

uh as opposed to those those who may be

0:20:41.840,0:20:48.559

uh you know there there were you know

0:20:45.840,0:20:49.679

kind of uh anyone who was supportive of

0:20:48.559,0:20:52.640

the town was kind of

0:20:49.679,0:20:53.200

you know cut down or something so you

0:20:52.640,0:20:56.080

know

0:20:53.200,0:20:57.440

um do you see that kind of thing also in

0:20:56.080,0:20:59.600

kind of urban

0:20:57.440,0:21:00.960

urban areas as sort of uh and it didn't

0:20:59.600,0:21:04.799

have just a serious question

0:21:00.960,0:21:08.240

but that's kind of kind of all i had

0:21:04.799,0:21:11.280

to add okay terrific

0:21:08.240,0:21:12.640

uh so why don't we open the discussion

0:21:11.280,0:21:15.200

up to the

0:21:12.640,0:21:17.039

uh audience sophia can you bring

0:21:15.200,0:21:20.320

everyone in now

0:21:17.039,0:21:20.320

yes i'll go ahead and do that

0:21:24.880,0:21:31.840

so let's see

0:21:33.919,0:21:38.960

i see a bell has a hand up okay a bell

0:21:40.720,0:21:45.200

um that was not um that was not me

0:21:43.200,0:21:49.360

raising a hand but i'm happy to

0:21:45.200,0:21:52.320

um hey um um begin a

0:21:49.360,0:21:53.760

a discussion um i really enjoyed um the

0:21:52.320,0:21:55.280

conversation and i

0:21:53.760,0:21:57.679

i also thought you did a really good job

0:21:55.280,0:22:00.720

chris um summarizing

0:21:57.679,0:22:03.919

um the paper um i'm intrigued

0:22:00.720,0:22:07.200

with the rural urban sort of

0:22:03.919,0:22:08.080

um frame in part because i've been doing

0:22:07.200,0:22:11.600

some work with

0:22:08.080,0:22:12.000

colleagues at uc merced and as many of

0:22:11.600,0:22:15.840

us know

0:22:12.000,0:22:16.880

merced um in the san joaquin valley is

0:22:15.840,0:22:20.000

oftentimes

0:22:16.880,0:22:23.280

just type cast as rural

0:22:20.000,0:22:26.480

um but nearby it also

0:22:23.280,0:22:29.760

um includes the cities of fresno and

0:22:26.480,0:22:32.400

bakersfield then there's uh movement

0:22:29.760,0:22:33.520

in between these rural spaces and

0:22:32.400,0:22:37.120

there's just

0:22:33.520,0:22:41.039

object poverty and um blight

0:22:37.120,0:22:45.280

and so here's another example of

0:22:41.039,0:22:48.000

at least this context

0:22:45.280,0:22:50.159

but we're beginning to see emerging

0:22:48.000,0:22:53.520

sorts of relationships not only with uc

0:22:50.159,0:22:56.480

merced and faculty to build

0:22:53.520,0:22:57.520

relationships within an urban but also

0:22:56.480,0:22:59.919

rural

0:22:57.520,0:23:00.720

framework and i think that's really

0:22:59.919,0:23:04.559

unique

0:23:00.720,0:23:07.919

um that's um a kind of a new

0:23:04.559,0:23:09.440

um added dimension to study um and to

0:23:07.919,0:23:11.440

try to understand

0:23:09.440,0:23:13.760

um i think what's going on and so that's

0:23:11.440,0:23:16.960

the part that's really drawing me

0:23:13.760,0:23:18.960

um to this conversation um and

0:23:16.960,0:23:21.039

and and i think there's something more

0:23:18.960,0:23:22.000

to it than just in kansas i think we're

0:23:21.039,0:23:25.679

seeing some of this

0:23:22.000,0:23:29.360

in um our own um um

0:23:25.679,0:23:31.280

state in our own um backyard so i salute

0:23:29.360,0:23:32.480

the paper and i suppose this is more of

0:23:31.280,0:23:35.600

a comment

0:23:32.480,0:23:36.000

um than an actual question but i enjoyed

0:23:35.600,0:23:37.919

how you

0:23:36.000,0:23:40.000

framed that walter and kind of the

0:23:37.919,0:23:43.760

struggle between the urban and the rural

0:23:40.000,0:23:46.640

and what that means pardon my um

0:23:43.760,0:23:48.159

background noise okay thank you very

0:23:46.640,0:23:49.840

much about why don't we take another two

0:23:48.159,0:23:52.159

or three questions or comments and then

0:23:49.840,0:23:54.799

we'll give it back to the authors

0:23:52.159,0:23:54.799

anyone else

0:23:56.880,0:24:02.240

all right so while we're waiting some

0:23:58.559,0:24:02.240

further reflections from the authors

0:24:03.760,0:24:08.799

okay susan go ahead hi everyone i really

0:24:07.279,0:24:12.240

enjoyed your paper um

0:24:08.799,0:24:14.240

wow it feels so echoey anyway um i

0:24:12.240,0:24:15.919

i have a question um it's a little on a

0:24:14.240,0:24:18.000

little different lines than

0:24:15.919,0:24:20.000

why the mobilization took place but i

0:24:18.000,0:24:22.720

was really curious about

0:24:20.000,0:24:24.159

what seemed to be the unidimensional

0:24:22.720,0:24:26.559

kind of framing

0:24:24.159,0:24:27.679

on the part of those who mobilized based

0:24:26.559,0:24:28.880

on that i don't know if you know with

0:24:27.679,0:24:30.320

dimensionals the right

0:24:28.880,0:24:33.279

way of putting it but like i could

0:24:30.320,0:24:37.200

imagine all kinds of other reasons

0:24:33.279,0:24:38.960

to oppose a tyson plant besides the ones

0:24:37.200,0:24:42.159

that came up in your study

0:24:38.960,0:24:44.159

and i was just curious um if you had any

0:24:42.159,0:24:46.480

comments about that framing i mean it's

0:24:44.159,0:24:48.400

sort of horrifying with the framing and

0:24:46.480,0:24:50.880

it's an enlightening as

0:24:48.400,0:24:52.240

others commented um in terms of

0:24:50.880,0:24:55.360

understanding sort of these

0:24:52.240,0:24:56.799

the attitudes in this rural community um

0:24:55.360,0:25:00.080

but i was kind of wondering

0:24:56.799,0:25:02.559

like i could imagine all kinds of um

0:25:00.080,0:25:03.440

really politically progressive reasons

0:25:02.559,0:25:07.279

to

0:25:03.440,0:25:09.360

to oppose the plant um other than

0:25:07.279,0:25:11.120

anti-immigrant sentiment and other than

0:25:09.360,0:25:12.080

racism and i was just curious if this

0:25:11.120,0:25:15.200

came up at all

0:25:12.080,0:25:16.960

in your like in the community

0:25:15.200,0:25:18.320

or not like i could imagine being

0:25:16.960,0:25:22.400

critical of the

0:25:18.320,0:25:25.760

meat industry or labor exploitation

0:25:22.400,0:25:27.279

or you know i mean you know i

0:25:25.760,0:25:28.799

you know my own grandmother worked at a

0:25:27.279,0:25:31.360

type implant so like i have

0:25:28.799,0:25:32.880

a little perspective on it from that um

0:25:31.360,0:25:34.480

and how that impacted her

0:25:32.880,0:25:36.159

so i'm just curious if you have any

0:25:34.480,0:25:39.440

thoughts about that

0:25:36.159,0:25:40.960

um aspect of this okay and a question

0:25:39.440,0:25:43.679

from marjorie and then we'll go back to

0:25:40.960,0:25:46.000

the authors

0:25:43.679,0:25:48.000

sorry i've done mute myself yeah just

0:25:46.000,0:25:48.640

piggybacking on that question i mean i

0:25:48.000,0:25:51.600

think the

0:25:48.640,0:25:52.400

this the power of what you've done is

0:25:51.600,0:25:54.559

you have

0:25:52.400,0:25:57.200

the ethnographic observations you have

0:25:54.559,0:26:01.039

the social media analysis

0:25:57.200,0:26:03.279

um you have the larger discourses

0:26:01.039,0:26:04.720

the newspaper circulation so what i'm

0:26:03.279,0:26:07.039

curious about

0:26:04.720,0:26:09.279

is how those different circulating

0:26:07.039,0:26:11.520

discourses came together

0:26:09.279,0:26:12.880

and maybe even when different ones

0:26:11.520,0:26:15.919

emerged you know so

0:26:12.880,0:26:20.400

when was this anti this racist

0:26:15.919,0:26:23.360

element surfaced by whom by what sectors

0:26:20.400,0:26:24.000

how was it picked up how did it sit in

0:26:23.360,0:26:27.039

tension

0:26:24.000,0:26:30.320

or not with other discourses like the

0:26:27.039,0:26:31.200

the um you know ecological concerns or

0:26:30.320,0:26:34.000

not wanting fact

0:26:31.200,0:26:35.840

uh all the progre other progressive

0:26:34.000,0:26:37.200

arguments that susan was suggesting

0:26:35.840,0:26:40.400

could have been made

0:26:37.200,0:26:41.919

were they made by some people and what

0:26:40.400,0:26:43.679

was that uneasy

0:26:41.919,0:26:45.440

i mean you mentioned that people were

0:26:43.679,0:26:47.440

uncomfortable with the racist

0:26:45.440,0:26:49.360

arguments and then brought others so i

0:26:47.440,0:26:51.440

guess i'm just curious about

0:26:49.360,0:26:54.320

the dynamics of those different

0:26:51.440,0:26:56.799

discourses and how they got

0:26:54.320,0:26:57.840

circulated and used and picked up and

0:26:56.799,0:27:00.720

sitting in tension

0:26:57.840,0:27:02.880

and how they each emerged you know it's

0:27:00.720,0:27:03.600

probably hard to really grasp but you do

0:27:02.880,0:27:06.000

have

0:27:03.600,0:27:07.440

this wonderful data set i think the

0:27:06.000,0:27:09.360

social media is

0:27:07.440,0:27:11.600

one of the places oh and one more thing

0:27:09.360,0:27:12.000

but one of the places where we can trace

0:27:11.600,0:27:13.760

that

0:27:12.000,0:27:15.440

because you can see what was picked up

0:27:13.760,0:27:18.399

first and what was circulated

0:27:15.440,0:27:19.200

but then i think we do get we can we run

0:27:18.399,0:27:22.399

the risk of

0:27:19.200,0:27:24.159

assuming that social media is all full

0:27:22.399,0:27:25.919

reality because they're also i'm sure

0:27:24.159,0:27:26.799

conversations in the coffee shop down

0:27:25.919,0:27:30.880

the street or

0:27:26.799,0:27:33.200

whatever that um may have been more

0:27:30.880,0:27:34.960

even more of an impact so any thoughts

0:27:33.200,0:27:36.080

from the authors it's a really rich and

0:27:34.960,0:27:39.840

exciting

0:27:36.080,0:27:41.039

analysis of them okay so back to the

0:27:39.840,0:27:44.640

authors

0:27:41.039,0:27:48.000

yes um

0:27:44.640,0:27:51.039

the two the two frames the

0:27:48.000,0:27:52.320

environmental concerns and concerns

0:27:51.039,0:27:56.080

about

0:27:52.320,0:27:59.440

the potential populations who might

0:27:56.080,0:28:03.440

come to the town if the plant came

0:27:59.440,0:28:03.919

those emerged from the conversations

0:28:03.440,0:28:06.000

that

0:28:03.919,0:28:07.600

um that happened on facebook and

0:28:06.000,0:28:11.039

facebook was actually an

0:28:07.600,0:28:12.559

a central tool for this whole

0:28:11.039,0:28:15.760

organization

0:28:12.559,0:28:19.840

um for the home of mobilization it

0:28:15.760,0:28:23.440

it really um it there were conversations

0:28:19.840,0:28:26.720

in in outside um

0:28:23.440,0:28:29.760

outside facebook i'm sure but

0:28:26.720,0:28:30.320

but facebook was really the instrument

0:28:29.760,0:28:33.200

that

0:28:30.320,0:28:34.000

that the organizers use to communicate

0:28:33.200,0:28:37.039

with every

0:28:34.000,0:28:40.480

with others in town and with themselves

0:28:37.039,0:28:42.559

so it was um and it all everyone

0:28:40.480,0:28:44.799

made reference to facebook so we we

0:28:42.559,0:28:48.640

thought that facebook that those

0:28:44.799,0:28:52.559

exchanges were a good um

0:28:48.640,0:28:54.799

a good entry and a good um way to gauge

0:28:52.559,0:28:56.159

what the what they were they were

0:28:54.799,0:28:59.279

talking about

0:28:56.159,0:29:01.440

um and so those were the the two

0:28:59.279,0:29:02.799

frames and and the environment is

0:29:01.440,0:29:06.320

actually

0:29:02.799,0:29:07.120

for for the for the people involved in

0:29:06.320,0:29:09.760

this

0:29:07.120,0:29:10.559

that was a progressive concern that was

0:29:09.760,0:29:13.760

uh

0:29:10.559,0:29:17.440

that was the that was the um

0:29:13.760,0:29:22.000

the not racist concern and that

0:29:17.440,0:29:25.039

was discussed quite openly and often

0:29:22.000,0:29:26.880

because they were very careful also to

0:29:25.039,0:29:28.640

police themselves about any racist

0:29:26.880,0:29:32.799

language

0:29:28.640,0:29:36.720

but the ends of the racist language um

0:29:32.799,0:29:37.919

was cleaned up very early on in the in

0:29:36.720,0:29:41.120

the campaign

0:29:37.919,0:29:45.200

and and only indirectly

0:29:41.120,0:29:48.240

um was left in there um in conversations

0:29:45.200,0:29:48.880

and and danny um spent quite a bit of

0:29:48.240,0:29:51.760

time

0:29:48.880,0:29:52.480

talking with people in the informally in

0:29:51.760,0:29:56.080

the town

0:29:52.480,0:30:00.240

and um and so allusions

0:29:56.080,0:30:03.760

to potential problems that

0:30:00.240,0:30:06.799

newcomers could bring to the town um

0:30:03.760,0:30:08.640

were often discussed but never always

0:30:06.799,0:30:11.679

very carefully

0:30:08.640,0:30:15.279

not framed as racist

0:30:11.679,0:30:16.240

very very carefully and um and so that's

0:30:15.279,0:30:19.840

how we picked up

0:30:16.240,0:30:22.559

those two main topics that that came up

0:30:19.840,0:30:23.279

and walter or danny do you want to add

0:30:22.559,0:30:26.480

anything

0:30:23.279,0:30:28.399

yeah i mean i i'd like to add that um

0:30:26.480,0:30:30.480

that that's right there there was there

0:30:28.399,0:30:33.679

they're very very concerned so this is

0:30:30.480,0:30:35.840

the the facebook was both sort of a

0:30:33.679,0:30:38.640

backstage but also front stage no um and

0:30:35.840,0:30:41.520

then there was a lot of careful

0:30:38.640,0:30:42.320

um um sort of training and coaching by

0:30:41.520,0:30:45.440

the leaders

0:30:42.320,0:30:47.440

to not be explicitly racist um

0:30:45.440,0:30:48.720

so a lot of the type of stuff that you

0:30:47.440,0:30:50.000

know so but they couldn't necessarily

0:30:48.720,0:30:51.679

control everything

0:30:50.000,0:30:53.200

so a lot of the stuff would just sort of

0:30:51.679,0:30:53.919

bubble up and you would see these like

0:30:53.200,0:30:56.720

sort of you know these

0:30:53.919,0:30:57.600

sort of pretty shocking posts um but

0:30:56.720,0:31:00.880

then the the

0:30:57.600,0:31:04.080

the the um directors of the of the

0:31:00.880,0:31:06.960

movement of mobilization tried to um

0:31:04.080,0:31:07.919

to really control for that um but we see

0:31:06.960,0:31:09.440

a lot of the stuff

0:31:07.919,0:31:11.200

as cecilia's just mentioned we see a lot

0:31:09.440,0:31:12.000

of the stuff um happening through these

0:31:11.200,0:31:13.440

types of

0:31:12.000,0:31:14.799

you know sort of conversations so we

0:31:13.440,0:31:15.360

went around and interviewed a bunch of

0:31:14.799,0:31:17.200

people

0:31:15.360,0:31:18.960

um in the town and you know they would

0:31:17.200,0:31:21.360

say they're very careful

0:31:18.960,0:31:22.240

not to be explicitly racist because of

0:31:21.360,0:31:24.240

the fact that

0:31:22.240,0:31:25.519

that's that's delegitimizing so they're

0:31:24.240,0:31:27.760

very conscious about that

0:31:25.519,0:31:29.600

but then so people use proxy language no

0:31:27.760,0:31:30.720

um so yeah you know we're going to have

0:31:29.600,0:31:32.960

to have used esl

0:31:30.720,0:31:34.399

classes you know all that was a very

0:31:32.960,0:31:37.440

very prominent concern

0:31:34.399,0:31:40.720

was impact on school no esl classes

0:31:37.440,0:31:42.320

um introducing trailers um and and sort

0:31:40.720,0:31:44.240

of a general sort of degradation

0:31:42.320,0:31:46.000

of services and service capacity in the

0:31:44.240,0:31:47.440

city so that was that's the way

0:31:46.000,0:31:50.000

people sort of talked about it and it

0:31:47.440,0:31:52.799

was it was and occasionally people would

0:31:50.000,0:31:53.679

would point to um um sort of neighboring

0:31:52.799,0:31:56.320

towns

0:31:53.679,0:31:57.039

um that had an influx of um ethiopian

0:31:56.320,0:31:58.799

refugees

0:31:57.039,0:32:00.559

um so a lot of that was sort of the

0:31:58.799,0:32:02.240

reference point also you know so people

0:32:00.559,0:32:04.559

were sort of well what's happening in

0:32:02.240,0:32:06.080

eastern kansas in western kansas or i

0:32:04.559,0:32:08.320

think it was western kansas

0:32:06.080,0:32:10.159

and these these were sort of reference

0:32:08.320,0:32:10.640

points um that people often times

0:32:10.159,0:32:13.919

mentioned

0:32:10.640,0:32:17.279

so there were so and then there were um

0:32:13.919,0:32:18.960

interest in in um

0:32:17.279,0:32:20.559

in uh in the environment and it's sort

0:32:18.960,0:32:22.480

of interesting because a lot of these

0:32:20.559,0:32:23.679

i mean there's sort of like what chris

0:32:22.480,0:32:25.760

was saying there's there's sort of a

0:32:23.679,0:32:27.760

racialization of the landscape as well

0:32:25.760,0:32:29.600

you know so there are people who talk

0:32:27.760,0:32:31.840

about um well you know it's

0:32:29.600,0:32:33.440

this their be colic place and you know

0:32:31.840,0:32:36.720

making references to

0:32:33.440,0:32:37.200

um andy griffith's show kind of things

0:32:36.720,0:32:38.640

you know

0:32:37.200,0:32:40.480

these were these are the things in which

0:32:38.640,0:32:42.159

the ways in which people sort of talked

0:32:40.480,0:32:44.320

about the environment you know

0:32:42.159,0:32:45.919

um and again it's through this through

0:32:44.320,0:32:46.399

this framing this sort of racialized

0:32:45.919,0:32:49.279

framing

0:32:46.399,0:32:49.279

of space

0:32:50.640,0:32:56.720

okay just a comment in reaction to that

0:32:54.320,0:32:58.399

that discussion i'm joining from um the

0:32:56.720,0:32:58.880

university of iowa and something i

0:32:58.399,0:33:00.559

thought

0:32:58.880,0:33:03.120

that was remarkable about a successful

0:33:00.559,0:33:04.720

rural mobilization in 2017

0:33:03.120,0:33:06.880

that there's a time of great political

0:33:04.720,0:33:08.640

division in a lot of these rural

0:33:06.880,0:33:10.240

communities and that's threatened a lot

0:33:08.640,0:33:13.440

of those long-standing

0:33:10.240,0:33:15.679

ties among rural residents so in a way

0:33:13.440,0:33:17.200

this was like a good recipe for success

0:33:15.679,0:33:19.120

because

0:33:17.200,0:33:20.399

the environmental issues could bring in

0:33:19.120,0:33:21.440

people from maybe a more left

0:33:20.399,0:33:22.960

orientation

0:33:21.440,0:33:24.240

and then there was a coded way to bring

0:33:22.960,0:33:25.840

in people from another end of the

0:33:24.240,0:33:27.919

political spectrum

0:33:25.840,0:33:29.200

at a time when it is pretty hard to

0:33:27.919,0:33:31.279

bring folks together

0:33:29.200,0:33:33.200

um in rural america so i wondered if

0:33:31.279,0:33:35.600

that was kind of part of the the

0:33:33.200,0:33:38.559

remarkable success that you can open the

0:33:35.600,0:33:42.720

piece with

0:33:38.559,0:33:45.039

yes i wanted to add one thing to the

0:33:42.720,0:33:45.840

to what walter was saying as far as the

0:33:45.039,0:33:47.200

sort of

0:33:45.840,0:33:48.320

dimension he's absolutely i mean it's

0:33:47.200,0:33:49.039

absolutely right that the schools were

0:33:48.320,0:33:51.600

like them

0:33:49.039,0:33:53.200

an absolutely major like that was you

0:33:51.600,0:33:54.960

know what's going to happen with extra

0:33:53.200,0:33:58.720

teachers extra busing

0:33:54.960,0:34:00.880

uh but then you know you know tyson was

0:33:58.720,0:34:01.919

was promoting you know thousands of new

0:34:00.880,0:34:03.760

jobs

0:34:01.919,0:34:05.039

and was just assumed that all those new

0:34:03.760,0:34:06.799

jobs would be

0:34:05.039,0:34:08.560

people coming into the town it wouldn't

0:34:06.799,0:34:10.320

be like people in

0:34:08.560,0:34:11.919

in tonganoxie who would be working those

0:34:10.320,0:34:15.200

jobs uh

0:34:11.919,0:34:16.320

and you know there were of course some

0:34:15.200,0:34:20.480

people in the town

0:34:16.320,0:34:23.359

you know sort of lower income folks who

0:34:20.480,0:34:24.800

you know told us that yeah yeah i might

0:34:23.359,0:34:25.760

try and want to work there but it was

0:34:24.800,0:34:28.639

just sort of like

0:34:25.760,0:34:29.760

assumed it would be you know outsiders

0:34:28.639,0:34:32.720

who would come and just

0:34:29.760,0:34:34.240

change the the you know not only the

0:34:32.720,0:34:34.960

look of the town the kind of like nice

0:34:34.240,0:34:38.399

mood

0:34:34.960,0:34:41.359

lawns and and you know uh houses

0:34:38.399,0:34:42.800

uh kind of the the physical layout of

0:34:41.359,0:34:43.119

the town but the quality of life of the

0:34:42.800,0:34:44.240

town

0:34:43.119,0:34:46.879

you know they also talked about the

0:34:44.240,0:34:48.240

access traffic uh that would be coming

0:34:46.879,0:34:50.399

through with all the

0:34:48.240,0:34:51.520

trucks and the feathers and so that you

0:34:50.399,0:34:53.520

know it tied to the

0:34:51.520,0:34:54.800

environmental conservancy was kind of an

0:34:53.520,0:34:55.200

underlying health concern as far as

0:34:54.800,0:34:56.639

people

0:34:55.200,0:34:58.000

saying like oh i don't want to breathe

0:34:56.639,0:34:58.640

in all these chicken feathers and stuff

0:34:58.000,0:35:00.720

so

0:34:58.640,0:35:02.480

you know there was a lot of things that

0:35:00.720,0:35:04.079

kind of were discussed but yeah it

0:35:02.480,0:35:04.880

absolutely coalesced around these kind

0:35:04.079,0:35:07.920

of two

0:35:04.880,0:35:07.920

major sort of things

0:35:08.880,0:35:17.839

okay anyone else i know chris has uh

0:35:12.800,0:35:17.839

some thoughts

0:35:22.960,0:35:26.320

we canceled each other out there

0:35:26.480,0:35:32.560

go ahead i i don't want to uh

0:35:30.960,0:35:34.320

steamroll anybody else who has a

0:35:32.560,0:35:35.440

question but yeah i actually had a a

0:35:34.320,0:35:37.680

couple of responses

0:35:35.440,0:35:38.560

to the the initial round of responses

0:35:37.680,0:35:41.920

from the authors

0:35:38.560,0:35:43.359

and um and i agree i think there are

0:35:41.920,0:35:44.720

some things that are

0:35:43.359,0:35:46.000

i you've convinced me that there are

0:35:44.720,0:35:47.440

some things that are that are more

0:35:46.000,0:35:50.800

distinctive than

0:35:47.440,0:35:52.160

than i i uh allowed

0:35:50.800,0:35:53.680

there are two things that i think are

0:35:52.160,0:35:55.520

are not as distinctive i actually think

0:35:53.680,0:35:57.839

that the rural idol piece

0:35:55.520,0:35:58.960

is not distinctively rural i mean i

0:35:57.839,0:36:02.160

actually think that

0:35:58.960,0:36:02.880

in fact the discourse is remarkably

0:36:02.160,0:36:06.000

similar

0:36:02.880,0:36:07.920

in uh suburban and low density urban

0:36:06.000,0:36:09.440

settings where you there there's sort of

0:36:07.920,0:36:10.839

there's a lot of the same discourse

0:36:09.440,0:36:14.240

about neighborliness

0:36:10.839,0:36:16.160

tranquility even sort of pastoralism

0:36:14.240,0:36:17.680

even if the pastures in question are

0:36:16.160,0:36:20.480

just the you know the lawns

0:36:17.680,0:36:21.040

of single-family homes uh so i'm not

0:36:20.480,0:36:24.320

sure

0:36:21.040,0:36:25.920

that that i mean yes obviously

0:36:24.320,0:36:27.359

people understand the difference between

0:36:25.920,0:36:29.680

a rural area with

0:36:27.359,0:36:30.880

you know wild lands and farmland but i

0:36:29.680,0:36:32.880

think the discourse

0:36:30.880,0:36:34.000

ends up that gets mobilized is actually

0:36:32.880,0:36:37.920

pretty similar

0:36:34.000,0:36:39.359

i also uh there is bullying in in

0:36:37.920,0:36:41.839

a lot of these other settings as well

0:36:39.359,0:36:45.280

i've certainly encountered bullying both

0:36:41.839,0:36:47.680

online and in person i will say that

0:36:45.280,0:36:48.960

since i'm not in a small town there's

0:36:47.680,0:36:51.599

not the same

0:36:48.960,0:36:52.800

sort of moral charge of the bullying

0:36:51.599,0:36:55.359

because it's just

0:36:52.800,0:36:56.960

you know it's not people i see every day

0:36:55.359,0:37:00.079

although in some cases it is

0:36:56.960,0:37:03.200

uh relatively close neighbors but i

0:37:00.079,0:37:04.000

i think that in fact what is really

0:37:03.200,0:37:06.079

distinctive

0:37:04.000,0:37:08.800

and that i hadn't uh really looked at

0:37:06.079,0:37:11.599

enough is that

0:37:08.800,0:37:14.160

this is this is both of a really fast

0:37:11.599,0:37:17.119

mobilization and a thick mobilization

0:37:14.160,0:37:17.599

and again referring to buday's work

0:37:17.119,0:37:20.240

cheap

0:37:17.599,0:37:22.320

sort of contrast between fast and thin

0:37:20.240,0:37:24.320

mobilizations that are mainly driven

0:37:22.320,0:37:25.599

by by sort of newly arrived

0:37:24.320,0:37:28.000

professionals and

0:37:25.599,0:37:30.240

use of social media and slow and thick

0:37:28.000,0:37:33.920

mobilizations that are based on

0:37:30.240,0:37:36.320

on sort of uh long-standing networks

0:37:33.920,0:37:37.280

and i think partly just because of this

0:37:36.320,0:37:38.880

scale

0:37:37.280,0:37:41.200

but there may be other things that that

0:37:38.880,0:37:42.400

are distinctive this mobilization was

0:37:41.200,0:37:45.520

able to be both

0:37:42.400,0:37:46.320

fast and really thick uh and i think

0:37:45.520,0:37:50.079

that is

0:37:46.320,0:37:51.359

quite unusual and again you know i i'm

0:37:50.079,0:37:52.720

tempted to think that scale has

0:37:51.359,0:37:54.560

something to do with it which means it's

0:37:52.720,0:37:57.119

more likely to be a rural

0:37:54.560,0:37:58.079

uh sort of in a settled rural area than

0:37:57.119,0:37:59.839

an urban one

0:37:58.079,0:38:01.200

but yeah i think that's a that's an

0:37:59.839,0:38:05.119

interesting piece

0:38:01.200,0:38:07.520

and and we're thinking about more

0:38:05.119,0:38:09.680

okay gail had her hand up do you want to

0:38:07.520,0:38:13.280

go ahead

0:38:09.680,0:38:15.280

um yes um thank you for what i think is

0:38:13.280,0:38:16.960

a paper with a lot of potential and i

0:38:15.280,0:38:20.320

think the discussion

0:38:16.960,0:38:23.599

is actually um points in in the way of

0:38:20.320,0:38:26.240

more of what is a comment which is that

0:38:23.599,0:38:27.280

i i think it would be really enriching

0:38:26.240,0:38:29.839

to use more

0:38:27.280,0:38:31.520

of your data i actually don't think the

0:38:29.839,0:38:34.480

data is that will

0:38:31.520,0:38:36.560

exemplified in this so you make claims

0:38:34.480,0:38:38.400

but there's not enough of these voices

0:38:36.560,0:38:40.320

whether it's from facebook or

0:38:38.400,0:38:42.320

interviews so on and so forth and i

0:38:40.320,0:38:44.640

think you know that would strengthen

0:38:42.320,0:38:46.720

some of the things that you know so for

0:38:44.640,0:38:49.920

example on the rural idol it's a

0:38:46.720,0:38:52.720

it is a frame that is widely invoked

0:38:49.920,0:38:54.720

um and i think you know you seem to have

0:38:52.720,0:38:57.119

the data to actually fill that out

0:38:54.720,0:38:59.280

and i you know i would hope that that

0:38:57.119,0:39:00.320

you would do that and in so doing one

0:38:59.280,0:39:03.440

thing that

0:39:00.320,0:39:05.599

i'm curious about is um

0:39:03.440,0:39:07.280

you know how many of people in this town

0:39:05.599,0:39:08.800

it is a small town i think it's much

0:39:07.280,0:39:11.520

easier to mobilize

0:39:08.800,0:39:13.760

smaller populations particularly since

0:39:11.520,0:39:14.240

all of the regulations that come into

0:39:13.760,0:39:17.520

play

0:39:14.240,0:39:19.599

in urban areas um are not necessarily

0:39:17.520,0:39:22.320

invoked within 10 seconds

0:39:19.599,0:39:24.320

as it were but so it's not clear to me

0:39:22.320,0:39:24.720

is everybody on this town on facebook

0:39:24.320,0:39:28.240

and i

0:39:24.720,0:39:30.640

and also i would like to know more about

0:39:28.240,0:39:32.079

you know we have this hybrid town i'd

0:39:30.640,0:39:34.640

like to know you know who

0:39:32.079,0:39:36.000

is bringing what to this discussion you

0:39:34.640,0:39:38.640

know how many of the

0:39:36.000,0:39:40.000

recent incomers you know are the ones

0:39:38.640,0:39:43.040

that are actually

0:39:40.000,0:39:44.720

pushing this mobilization um et cetera i

0:39:43.040,0:39:47.520

don't have a sense of that

0:39:44.720,0:39:47.839

and it takes me to my comment um daniel

0:39:47.520,0:39:49.839

you

0:39:47.839,0:39:51.280

made this comment about censorship and i

0:39:49.839,0:39:53.760

would have to say that

0:39:51.280,0:39:56.000

you know this you know bullying stuff we

0:39:53.760,0:39:56.640

don't need to go very far we just need

0:39:56.000,0:39:59.599

to stay

0:39:56.640,0:40:00.880

in our wonderful ucla environment and

0:39:59.599,0:40:04.000

it's happening

0:40:00.880,0:40:06.240

at rapid speed but um i'm

0:40:04.000,0:40:08.240

i'm i'd like to hear you talk a little

0:40:06.240,0:40:10.640

more about that and in what

0:40:08.240,0:40:12.640

context assuming that some people are

0:40:10.640,0:40:14.720

not on facebook in what context are

0:40:12.640,0:40:16.319

people actually bullied

0:40:14.720,0:40:18.400

so i'd like to know more about

0:40:16.319,0:40:21.440

generation as questions

0:40:18.400,0:40:23.440

about generation about this hybridity

0:40:21.440,0:40:26.160

and who is actually engaged in what and

0:40:23.440,0:40:26.160

censorship

0:40:26.400,0:40:29.839

okay authors

0:40:30.319,0:40:34.960

i think marjorie has a piggyback

0:40:32.480,0:40:38.240

question on this

0:40:34.960,0:40:41.280

marjorie you're mute

0:40:38.240,0:40:44.240

you're muted marjorie yeah

0:40:41.280,0:40:45.520

and i see karina also does um i think

0:40:44.240,0:40:47.680

it's piggybacking on

0:40:45.520,0:40:49.760

gail's point about wanting to see more

0:40:47.680,0:40:52.720

of the ethnography

0:40:49.760,0:40:54.480

and it was more how i read the paper in

0:40:52.720,0:40:55.680

in comparison with the way you talked

0:40:54.480,0:40:58.800

about it now

0:40:55.680,0:41:00.880

um to set up the problem i got a little

0:40:58.800,0:41:01.440

lost at the beginning as you were laying

0:41:00.880,0:41:03.280

out

0:41:01.440,0:41:04.480

the hybridity in the beret and how it

0:41:03.280,0:41:06.800

compared to other

0:41:04.480,0:41:08.880

contexts that where this had happened or

0:41:06.800,0:41:10.640

not but the way you laid it out today in

0:41:08.880,0:41:12.400

the conversation and i since it's being

0:41:10.640,0:41:14.480

recorded you can listen to yourselves

0:41:12.400,0:41:15.920

i think was cl you know really helped me

0:41:14.480,0:41:18.640

understand oh

0:41:15.920,0:41:20.560

it's the rapidity the quickness of this

0:41:18.640,0:41:21.680

mobilization that was so different and

0:41:20.560,0:41:24.240

wanting to look at that

0:41:21.680,0:41:25.920

and then to see more of this i i wanted

0:41:24.240,0:41:28.720

to get to the ethnography

0:41:25.920,0:41:29.280

itself and to see hearing it seem that

0:41:28.720,0:41:32.640

that

0:41:29.280,0:41:34.319

the framing almost was uh

0:41:32.640,0:41:36.800

you know setting us up to already have

0:41:34.319,0:41:38.000

the answer um rather than leading us to

0:41:36.800,0:41:39.200

the question

0:41:38.000,0:41:41.520

and then seeing it through the

0:41:39.200,0:41:42.160

ethnography and then coming back to that

0:41:41.520,0:41:43.920

at the end

0:41:42.160,0:41:45.760

so i think it's just a little bit of a

0:41:43.920,0:41:47.200

reshaping that would have helped me as a

0:41:45.760,0:41:50.480

reader

0:41:47.200,0:41:54.160

okay all right thank you and

0:41:50.480,0:41:55.520

um karina is it is it related to that

0:41:54.160,0:41:57.440

okay

0:41:55.520,0:41:59.839

um hi everyone um my name is karina

0:41:57.440,0:42:01.839

chavarria i'm at csu channel islands

0:41:59.839,0:42:02.880

um and so i just wanted to kind of

0:42:01.839,0:42:05.599

piggyback on both

0:42:02.880,0:42:06.800

girl and marjorie's um questions

0:42:05.599,0:42:09.119

particularly

0:42:06.800,0:42:11.440

in the context of the cultural framework

0:42:09.119,0:42:11.920

and the power dynamics within the group

0:42:11.440,0:42:15.119

right

0:42:11.920,0:42:18.160

um and how um this framework um

0:42:15.119,0:42:18.480

as you um i'll argue is functioning in

0:42:18.160,0:42:21.280

both

0:42:18.480,0:42:22.880

cognitive and effective forms to bridge

0:42:21.280,0:42:25.040

the two groups right

0:42:22.880,0:42:26.480

but but i was wondering if you could

0:42:25.040,0:42:28.640

elaborate a bit more

0:42:26.480,0:42:29.599

on on both of those features right the

0:42:28.640,0:42:32.640

ways in which

0:42:29.599,0:42:34.319

the cognitive and effective features um

0:42:32.640,0:42:36.800

could potentially or did they

0:42:34.319,0:42:37.520

potentially play in the power dynamics

0:42:36.800,0:42:40.720

between the

0:42:37.520,0:42:44.000

the groups right and and what were

0:42:40.720,0:42:46.240

the situated aspects of the leaders and

0:42:44.000,0:42:47.280

then particularly in the context of

0:42:46.240,0:42:49.760

facebook um

0:42:47.280,0:42:50.400

that enabled this silencing or this

0:42:49.760,0:42:53.200

bullying

0:42:50.400,0:42:54.160

right um and so i wanted to hear a

0:42:53.200,0:42:57.760

little bit more

0:42:54.160,0:43:00.800

about that okay

0:42:57.760,0:43:00.800

okay authors

0:43:03.520,0:43:07.520

you know what okay walter yeah i don't

0:43:07.280,0:43:10.480

know

0:43:07.520,0:43:12.000

sure i'll i'll um so thank you for those

0:43:10.480,0:43:15.119

comments they're very very helpful

0:43:12.000,0:43:17.040

um in terms of

0:43:15.119,0:43:18.319

is everybody's everybody involved that

0:43:17.040,0:43:20.000

everybody had facebook

0:43:18.319,0:43:21.839

um so that's that's a that's an

0:43:20.000,0:43:23.440

important issue a lot of people

0:43:21.839,0:43:25.200

do have facebook and a lot of people are

0:43:23.440,0:43:27.440

connected to social media

0:43:25.200,0:43:29.440

but we also which wasn't was which is a

0:43:27.440,0:43:31.520

part that wasn't included in this paper

0:43:29.440,0:43:32.960

um there was we also did a lot of

0:43:31.520,0:43:35.440

interviews in um

0:43:32.960,0:43:37.040

a working-class area um and there was a

0:43:35.440,0:43:39.119

trailer park um that's sort of

0:43:37.040,0:43:41.520

physically separated from the city

0:43:39.119,0:43:43.119

now so it's like physically there's a

0:43:41.520,0:43:44.319

highway you have to cross the highway

0:43:43.119,0:43:45.920

it's very difficult to get to this

0:43:44.319,0:43:46.319

trailer park and we went there and we

0:43:45.920,0:43:49.040

asked

0:43:46.319,0:43:50.319

those people um you know how was their

0:43:49.040,0:43:52.560

access to information

0:43:50.319,0:43:54.000

and their their their connections to

0:43:52.560,0:43:56.000

this mobilization and they said

0:43:54.000,0:43:57.599

is very limited you know so they were

0:43:56.000,0:43:58.800

they were interested in the jobs that

0:43:57.599,0:44:00.400

would have been proposed

0:43:58.800,0:44:02.480

because many of these people drive 30

0:44:00.400,0:44:03.920

miles to their jobs and it's expensive

0:44:02.480,0:44:05.520

gasoline and all this kind of stuff you

0:44:03.920,0:44:06.160

know so they were sort of interested in

0:44:05.520,0:44:08.079

it

0:44:06.160,0:44:09.920

but they weren't they didn't get any

0:44:08.079,0:44:12.240

information through social media

0:44:09.920,0:44:13.599

um nor anything and so a lot of so a

0:44:12.240,0:44:15.760

couple of people we talked to

0:44:13.599,0:44:17.520

um learned about the mobilization they

0:44:15.760,0:44:20.480

saw stuff sort of popping up

0:44:17.520,0:44:22.240

um like sort of banners and billboards

0:44:20.480,0:44:23.839

and all that kind of stuff popping up

0:44:22.240,0:44:26.000

but they learned about it through um

0:44:23.839,0:44:26.800

local media um sort of just standard

0:44:26.000,0:44:29.280

local media

0:44:26.800,0:44:30.880

um and so there were so in terms of in

0:44:29.280,0:44:32.560

terms of who's a part of this

0:44:30.880,0:44:34.720

mobilization it wasn't just sort of

0:44:32.560,0:44:35.200

white but it was instinctively middle

0:44:34.720,0:44:38.240

class

0:44:35.200,0:44:39.920

people who are located in the center of

0:44:38.240,0:44:41.760

sort of close to the center of the city

0:44:39.920,0:44:43.760

so there's a very sort of strong

0:44:41.760,0:44:45.200

um sort of class dimension here that we

0:44:43.760,0:44:47.040

weren't able to develop in this paper

0:44:45.200,0:44:48.960

because of space issues

0:44:47.040,0:44:50.319

but i think that that's also important

0:44:48.960,0:44:53.119

and i think that this this

0:44:50.319,0:44:54.240

this is what makes um something like the

0:44:53.119,0:44:58.560

the rural idol

0:44:54.240,0:45:01.440

not only sort of a racialized um sort of

0:44:58.560,0:45:01.680

discourse but also very very classed um

0:45:01.440,0:45:03.119

and

0:45:01.680,0:45:04.960

which which helps to create these

0:45:03.119,0:45:08.000

bridges between

0:45:04.960,0:45:11.119

newcomers and more established residents

0:45:08.000,0:45:12.880

so so so again the the not everybody was

0:45:11.119,0:45:15.520

engaged that's that's for sure

0:45:12.880,0:45:16.720

um and the people who were engaged um

0:45:15.520,0:45:18.400

were

0:45:16.720,0:45:19.680

mostly mostly middle-class people or

0:45:18.400,0:45:20.800

working-class people who were

0:45:19.680,0:45:22.079

aspirational now

0:45:20.800,0:45:23.839

so we talked to a couple of these like

0:45:22.079,0:45:24.400

working-class people they're very into

0:45:23.839,0:45:26.160

it

0:45:24.400,0:45:27.520

because they thought of this as a way of

0:45:26.160,0:45:29.839

sort of plugging in to

0:45:27.520,0:45:30.880

um sort of the in-group you know and and

0:45:29.839,0:45:33.040

so they were these

0:45:30.880,0:45:35.200

these people within these the trailer

0:45:33.040,0:45:37.680

parks people who aspired to be

0:45:35.200,0:45:38.400

to to get a house in town um these

0:45:37.680,0:45:40.960

people were

0:45:38.400,0:45:42.319

very very favorable um to the to this

0:45:40.960,0:45:43.839

type of mobilization and then

0:45:42.319,0:45:45.359

amongst the leadership and again we

0:45:43.839,0:45:46.079

didn't include this in the paper but we

0:45:45.359,0:45:48.319

did

0:45:46.079,0:45:49.440

we did lincoln linkedin um examination

0:45:48.319,0:45:51.359

of the leaders

0:45:49.440,0:45:53.520

um and their their occupational

0:45:51.359,0:45:55.599

background so this was very sort of

0:45:53.520,0:46:00.000

like solidly occupationally a

0:45:55.599,0:46:03.040

middle-class mobilization

0:46:00.000,0:46:05.839

and also um among the

0:46:03.040,0:46:06.960

leaders of the town and this is also not

0:46:05.839,0:46:10.160

in the paper

0:46:06.960,0:46:12.880

among the leaders of the town not all

0:46:10.160,0:46:13.680

not everyone was on board but the

0:46:12.880,0:46:16.800

bullying

0:46:13.680,0:46:20.640

and the and the policing

0:46:16.800,0:46:23.920

um lined everyone up so for instance

0:46:20.640,0:46:26.960

um for some business owners

0:46:23.920,0:46:28.079

tyson would have been very good um for

0:46:26.960,0:46:30.720

the bankers

0:46:28.079,0:46:31.599

um it would have been very good we and

0:46:30.720,0:46:34.960

danny and i

0:46:31.599,0:46:37.680

um spoke to a woman who

0:46:34.960,0:46:38.720

who was the manager of the local bank

0:46:37.680,0:46:41.920

and

0:46:38.720,0:46:43.680

she she spoke just to the two of us but

0:46:41.920,0:46:45.440

she spoke in a very soft

0:46:43.680,0:46:48.319

voice because she didn't want anyone

0:46:45.440,0:46:50.720

else to hear her what she was telling us

0:46:48.319,0:46:51.440

that tyson would have been good for the

0:46:50.720,0:46:54.720

town

0:46:51.440,0:46:58.000

but she looked around making sure no one

0:46:54.720,0:46:58.319

heard her and told her told us it would

0:46:58.000,0:47:01.839

be

0:46:58.319,0:47:04.400

good but that and that was

0:47:01.839,0:47:05.520

that that was not for everyone else to

0:47:04.400,0:47:07.920

hear because

0:47:05.520,0:47:08.560

uh publicly she had to support the

0:47:07.920,0:47:11.680

campaign

0:47:08.560,0:47:12.640

or else they would have boycotted the

0:47:11.680,0:47:16.560

bank

0:47:12.640,0:47:19.200

they um they uh the the leaders of the

0:47:16.560,0:47:20.400

of the mobilization would threaten

0:47:19.200,0:47:23.200

business owners

0:47:20.400,0:47:25.440

with um boycotting the business if they

0:47:23.200,0:47:29.359

stood out of line

0:47:25.440,0:47:31.680

so that was another that's how intense

0:47:29.359,0:47:32.720

the the policing of language the

0:47:31.680,0:47:34.960

policing of

0:47:32.720,0:47:36.400

what was supposed to be said and the

0:47:34.960,0:47:38.640

bullying worked

0:47:36.400,0:47:41.520

in the in that small town it was very

0:47:38.640,0:47:43.040

effective that way

0:47:41.520,0:47:44.559

including the local grocery store that

0:47:43.040,0:47:47.040

was selling

0:47:44.559,0:47:48.319

the grocery store oh my goodness yes

0:47:47.040,0:47:52.079

yeah

0:47:48.319,0:47:56.079

the grocery store um had some some

0:47:52.079,0:47:59.599

tyson chicken for sale and

0:47:56.079,0:48:00.240

the town boycotted the grocery store

0:47:59.599,0:48:03.280

because

0:48:00.240,0:48:03.680

they had a few packages of tyson chicken

0:48:03.280,0:48:06.800

for

0:48:03.680,0:48:10.079

on on the on the shelf so um

0:48:06.800,0:48:14.079

so it was very very intense that way

0:48:10.079,0:48:15.200

and um even even the the middle class

0:48:14.079,0:48:19.200

business owners

0:48:15.200,0:48:22.640

were not um supposed to deviate from the

0:48:19.200,0:48:25.040

from the message also just

0:48:22.640,0:48:25.760

what's what's so that i think what's

0:48:25.040,0:48:27.680

also was

0:48:25.760,0:48:29.040

interesting was also the the this is

0:48:27.680,0:48:29.839

something that's different from cities

0:48:29.040,0:48:32.880

as well

0:48:29.839,0:48:34.319

isn't only sort of the the almost sort

0:48:32.880,0:48:36.000

of the totalitarian nature of these

0:48:34.319,0:48:38.079

types of networks um that

0:48:36.000,0:48:39.599

provide um complete surveillance over

0:48:38.079,0:48:40.400

what everybody says so people have to

0:48:39.599,0:48:43.599

sort of whisper

0:48:40.400,0:48:46.079

so because somebody in in the bank might

0:48:43.599,0:48:49.119

overhear and then pass it on and it gets

0:48:46.079,0:48:50.800

it gets uh sent off to facebook and then

0:48:49.119,0:48:52.960

boom you're you're you're called out

0:48:50.800,0:48:55.359

you're you're canceled you know

0:48:52.960,0:48:56.880

um and then but what's also interesting

0:48:55.359,0:48:58.880

is that politicians so

0:48:56.880,0:49:00.640

here in los angeles where i live if

0:48:58.880,0:49:01.599

we're going to try to talk to our city

0:49:00.640,0:49:04.319

council person

0:49:01.599,0:49:05.359

it's nearly impossible um it's very very

0:49:04.319,0:49:07.359

difficult

0:49:05.359,0:49:08.720

but in tyson you go to church with these

0:49:07.359,0:49:10.880

people you see them in the

0:49:08.720,0:49:12.720

and you you create that kind of direct

0:49:10.880,0:49:15.520

effective pressure and that was sort of

0:49:12.720,0:49:16.240

the the political opportunity um in

0:49:15.520,0:49:18.640

tight and

0:49:16.240,0:49:19.839

tonganoxie i think was this type of

0:49:18.640,0:49:21.599

intimate proximity

0:49:19.839,0:49:23.200

um and overlapping networks with

0:49:21.599,0:49:25.920

political representatives

0:49:23.200,0:49:26.400

that you don't see in large cities

0:49:25.920,0:49:28.640

because

0:49:26.400,0:49:30.800

at first all the political establishment

0:49:28.640,0:49:31.839

from local elected officials all the way

0:49:30.800,0:49:33.599

to senators

0:49:31.839,0:49:35.520

were all behind the tyson project this

0:49:33.599,0:49:37.920

was a huge project

0:49:35.520,0:49:39.440

but the ability to exercise pressure and

0:49:37.920,0:49:40.400

these types of very sort of intimate

0:49:39.440,0:49:43.440

spaces

0:49:40.400,0:49:46.880

provided some degree of leverage for for

0:49:43.440,0:49:50.800

for the locals and pressure was

0:49:46.880,0:49:51.359

very intense in this um in the first few

0:49:50.800,0:49:54.319

weeks

0:49:51.359,0:49:55.920

and then later of course one city

0:49:54.319,0:50:00.160

council member had to take

0:49:55.920,0:50:03.839

medical leave because of the of the

0:50:00.160,0:50:07.119

of the campaign and the pressure um

0:50:03.839,0:50:11.119

because this city council member

0:50:07.119,0:50:13.040

is not um the the

0:50:11.119,0:50:14.960

the people in the mobilization and the

0:50:13.040,0:50:18.240

people of the town

0:50:14.960,0:50:21.280

would i would tell him would

0:50:18.240,0:50:23.920

run into him in church in um

0:50:21.280,0:50:24.559

in the cafe town they were running to

0:50:23.920,0:50:27.040

him

0:50:24.559,0:50:29.200

anywhere in parking lots everywhere so

0:50:27.040,0:50:29.760

they would um put pressure on him not

0:50:29.200,0:50:32.800

just

0:50:29.760,0:50:36.640

in the in the city council meeting

0:50:32.800,0:50:38.800

but in daily life so um at some point

0:50:36.640,0:50:40.240

um he had to take medical leave because

0:50:38.800,0:50:42.960

um he was

0:50:40.240,0:50:45.359

getting ill from from the pressure that

0:50:42.960,0:50:48.319

the town people were putting on him

0:50:45.359,0:50:50.720

i think he had a heart he had a heart

0:50:48.319,0:50:54.000

attack actually

0:50:50.720,0:50:56.960

as a result of all this um but it's

0:50:54.000,0:50:58.079

because the the pressure he was

0:50:56.960,0:51:01.920

experiencing

0:50:58.079,0:51:05.040

didn't only come from those meetings

0:51:01.920,0:51:07.119

it was if daily

0:51:05.040,0:51:08.559

in different aspects of his life because

0:51:07.119,0:51:11.760

he lives

0:51:08.559,0:51:14.000

in the town where people have

0:51:11.760,0:51:16.319

quite a bit of daily contact with each

0:51:14.000,0:51:16.319

other

0:51:16.880,0:51:21.040

so one of the one of the more extreme

0:51:19.520,0:51:23.440

examples i think was the

0:51:21.040,0:51:25.200

the family that it came out somehow it

0:51:23.440,0:51:26.400

got out of the the family that had sold

0:51:25.200,0:51:30.000

part of their land

0:51:26.400,0:51:31.520

for the project uh and and the kind of

0:51:30.000,0:51:33.040

pressure that was brought on to them

0:51:31.520,0:51:35.680

sort of the

0:51:33.040,0:51:37.359

public shaming i guess is what you could

0:51:35.680,0:51:38.800

call it to

0:51:37.359,0:51:40.800

how would you how could you sell your

0:51:38.800,0:51:42.079

land to tyson of course you know they

0:51:40.800,0:51:43.520

came out and said well we didn't know it

0:51:42.079,0:51:45.040

was tyson at the time

0:51:43.520,0:51:46.640

which is probably true because it was

0:51:45.040,0:51:50.240

like under a code name for a long time

0:51:46.640,0:51:52.319

but um yeah so it's kind of a

0:51:50.240,0:51:53.839

kind of an intense uh it was a very

0:51:52.319,0:51:57.760

intense

0:51:53.839,0:52:01.040

short you know uh intense situation that

0:51:57.760,0:52:02.079

unfolded in yeah just a very very short

0:52:01.040,0:52:03.520

amount of time

0:52:02.079,0:52:05.680

but you know on the other on the other

0:52:03.520,0:52:08.880

side you know uh

0:52:05.680,0:52:10.880

it really did bring the town

0:52:08.880,0:52:12.559

together in a lot of ways too you know

0:52:10.880,0:52:15.040

like it's it's

0:52:12.559,0:52:17.119

this whole situation has now like really

0:52:15.040,0:52:21.680

embedded itself in the

0:52:17.119,0:52:24.559

um consciousness of the town right like

0:52:21.680,0:52:25.280

uh one of the bars has a mural of the

0:52:24.559,0:52:28.640

big

0:52:25.280,0:52:28.960

september rally uh from a local artist

0:52:28.640,0:52:32.000

so

0:52:28.960,0:52:34.000

and you know you can still people still

0:52:32.000,0:52:36.400

talk about it right so and they they

0:52:34.000,0:52:38.960

they gathered all their material

0:52:36.400,0:52:40.400

uh for some sort of like historical like

0:52:38.960,0:52:41.040

museum or something oh you know it's

0:52:40.400,0:52:43.680

going to be

0:52:41.040,0:52:44.480

it so it brought their towns it brought

0:52:43.680,0:52:47.760

the time together

0:52:44.480,0:52:49.599

as well uh but it kind of yeah i don't

0:52:47.760,0:52:52.079

know it's sort of this

0:52:49.599,0:52:53.359

um but yeah definitely people were very

0:52:52.079,0:52:56.480

were

0:52:53.359,0:52:56.480

bullied in this sense

0:52:59.200,0:53:03.440

yeah um i was wondering um first of all

0:53:02.000,0:53:05.040

this is a fascinating paper and

0:53:03.440,0:53:06.480

fascinating discussion so thank you so

0:53:05.040,0:53:09.839

much for sharing it

0:53:06.480,0:53:13.920

um my question is in this case

0:53:09.839,0:53:15.359

um is there a large maybe this is beyond

0:53:13.920,0:53:18.319

the scope of your paper but

0:53:15.359,0:53:18.720

is there a larger point to make about

0:53:18.319,0:53:22.559

the

0:53:18.720,0:53:25.680

um sort of political economy

0:53:22.559,0:53:26.960

or something like that um and and the

0:53:25.680,0:53:30.160

cultural framing

0:53:26.960,0:53:33.520

because what what in this case

0:53:30.160,0:53:35.760

would have been a pro-immigrant or po

0:53:33.520,0:53:37.119

you know stance or stances and

0:53:35.760,0:53:40.319

pro-racial justice

0:53:37.119,0:53:41.760

stances because i think that's one of

0:53:40.319,0:53:42.960

the things i was thinking about as i was

0:53:41.760,0:53:44.880

reading the paper

0:53:42.960,0:53:46.000

because um it seems like from what

0:53:44.880,0:53:50.160

you're saying both

0:53:46.000,0:53:54.800

the environmental and the sort of

0:53:50.160,0:53:57.200

rural bucolic stances were very

0:53:54.800,0:53:58.000

either implicitly or explicitly racist

0:53:57.200,0:54:00.800

right

0:53:58.000,0:54:02.000

um because the the landscape itself was

0:54:00.800,0:54:05.119

also racialized

0:54:02.000,0:54:07.119

um but like what are we living

0:54:05.119,0:54:08.400

like is there a moment that we're living

0:54:07.119,0:54:11.200

through where they're

0:54:08.400,0:54:12.160

like what could you know i guess i was

0:54:11.200,0:54:14.800

thinking if we put

0:54:12.160,0:54:15.200

this paper in conversation with people

0:54:14.800,0:54:18.160

that

0:54:15.200,0:54:19.920

advocate building a prison in their town

0:54:18.160,0:54:22.160

or building a detention facility in

0:54:19.920,0:54:24.400

their temples they want to bring in jobs

0:54:22.160,0:54:26.079

but those are bringing in outsiders who

0:54:24.400,0:54:28.079

are going to be confined

0:54:26.079,0:54:29.839

right and in this case this would have

0:54:28.079,0:54:31.280

brought in outsiders

0:54:29.839,0:54:32.960

it's like if you're a pro-immigrant if

0:54:31.280,0:54:33.680

your immigrant rights organization or if

0:54:32.960,0:54:35.040

you're

0:54:33.680,0:54:37.359

you know supportive of immigrant

0:54:35.040,0:54:38.880

communities do you advocate for the

0:54:37.359,0:54:40.880

tyson plant

0:54:38.880,0:54:42.240

you know that also seems problematic in

0:54:40.880,0:54:43.599

other ways do you know what i mean

0:54:42.240,0:54:45.760

because

0:54:43.599,0:54:47.760

or maybe not maybe it isn't problematic

0:54:45.760,0:54:48.240

maybe but you know because then because

0:54:47.760,0:54:51.599

i guess

0:54:48.240,0:54:52.079

maybe this this particular controversy

0:54:51.599,0:54:55.040

um

0:54:52.079,0:54:57.520

and the success of the town also reveals

0:54:55.040,0:55:00.079

something about the limitations

0:54:57.520,0:55:01.200

of the options through which we can

0:55:00.079,0:55:02.640

really advocate

0:55:01.200,0:55:04.720

just i don't i don't know if i'm making

0:55:02.640,0:55:07.760

sense if that question makes sense

0:55:04.720,0:55:11.040

but um because uh

0:55:07.760,0:55:12.160

the um anyway i i think i've i've

0:55:11.040,0:55:15.040

explained my question

0:55:12.160,0:55:15.040

that may not make sense

0:55:16.480,0:55:21.359

um i i i'd like to i mean just in terms

0:55:19.760,0:55:24.480

of

0:55:21.359,0:55:26.559

the the just in terms of like for me

0:55:24.480,0:55:27.920

and thinking about like what is the the

0:55:26.559,0:55:29.680

bigger sort of issue

0:55:27.920,0:55:31.200

here you know so on the one hand it's

0:55:29.680,0:55:32.799

it's just sort of a really sort of

0:55:31.200,0:55:33.280

interesting case that we sort of fell

0:55:32.799,0:55:35.440

upon

0:55:33.280,0:55:36.480

and we thought it was it was fascinating

0:55:35.440,0:55:38.559

because of the

0:55:36.480,0:55:39.920

sort of the fastness and the thickness

0:55:38.559,0:55:42.640

of it in chris's terms

0:55:39.920,0:55:43.119

no um that was one thing um in addition

0:55:42.640,0:55:46.160

it was

0:55:43.119,0:55:46.720

but it's also uh for us it was also a

0:55:46.160,0:55:49.920

story

0:55:46.720,0:55:53.200

about um um you know like this

0:55:49.920,0:55:56.240

this these different battles over over

0:55:53.200,0:55:58.559

what constitutes rural america we have

0:55:56.240,0:56:00.000

one group that's um sort of middle class

0:55:58.559,0:56:02.319

or post-industrial

0:56:00.000,0:56:03.200

um and that's that's creating this this

0:56:02.319,0:56:05.760

particularly

0:56:03.200,0:56:07.839

sort of revamped um understanding of

0:56:05.760,0:56:08.240

what rural america is that's that's very

0:56:07.839,0:56:10.799

white

0:56:08.240,0:56:11.280

and middle class and then you have this

0:56:10.799,0:56:13.280

this

0:56:11.280,0:56:14.480

another sort of idea of rural america

0:56:13.280,0:56:17.520

which is like sort of

0:56:14.480,0:56:20.160

industrial hardcore capitalism no

0:56:17.520,0:56:21.839

and and that's that's that's made up of

0:56:20.160,0:56:25.119

sort of a new prokaryote

0:56:21.839,0:56:27.440

um and that's that's and and that this

0:56:25.119,0:56:28.880

and it's very very working class so i

0:56:27.440,0:56:30.559

think that this is one of the things for

0:56:28.880,0:56:31.839

me in terms of going to susan's question

0:56:30.559,0:56:33.520

about like what is this

0:56:31.839,0:56:34.960

i mean in terms of the bigger question i

0:56:33.520,0:56:35.440

think that for me that's one of the

0:56:34.960,0:56:38.640

issues

0:56:35.440,0:56:39.760

is that rural america is in is to a

0:56:38.640,0:56:41.280

certain extent

0:56:39.760,0:56:43.280

engaged in this type of sort of

0:56:41.280,0:56:44.000

contradiction with capitalism industrial

0:56:43.280,0:56:46.319

capitalism

0:56:44.000,0:56:47.920

trying to really sort of magnify and

0:56:46.319,0:56:49.520

transform these rural areas into

0:56:47.920,0:56:51.920

industrial spaces

0:56:49.520,0:56:53.839

um and then you have sort of pushbacks

0:56:51.920,0:56:56.960

from from various groups

0:56:53.839,0:57:00.240

and and in terms of um

0:56:56.960,0:57:03.520

in terms of um the the

0:57:00.240,0:57:05.599

the types of the types of um like

0:57:03.520,0:57:06.960

how this can this whether this can be

0:57:05.599,0:57:08.640

going back to susan's point about like

0:57:06.960,0:57:11.760

whether this can be sort of

0:57:08.640,0:57:12.079

progressive or not um i mean i'm not i'm

0:57:11.760,0:57:14.319

not

0:57:12.079,0:57:16.799

sure i'm not sure i mean i'm i'm really

0:57:14.319,0:57:19.839

not i think that there are certain like

0:57:16.799,0:57:22.319

like liberals who are mixed up with this

0:57:19.839,0:57:24.400

um and who really sort of held on to the

0:57:22.319,0:57:27.440

environmental language

0:57:24.400,0:57:28.799

but um but the but you know and they

0:57:27.440,0:57:29.359

really tried to sort of enforce this

0:57:28.799,0:57:32.240

type of

0:57:29.359,0:57:33.680

environmental sort of critique um but

0:57:32.240,0:57:34.559

but for the most part it was it was it

0:57:33.680,0:57:36.720

was a difficult

0:57:34.559,0:57:38.799

process for them discursively because

0:57:36.720,0:57:39.040

the racialized stuff always seeped back

0:57:38.799,0:57:40.799

in

0:57:39.040,0:57:42.640

in one way or another and so they were

0:57:40.799,0:57:45.119

so they were at this or it was like

0:57:42.640,0:57:47.280

they were sort of uh putting their

0:57:45.119,0:57:48.640

finger into into the dike you know and

0:57:47.280,0:57:49.760

it was just like they're like no this is

0:57:48.640,0:57:50.640

about environmental this is about

0:57:49.760,0:57:53.200

environmental well

0:57:50.640,0:57:54.319

everybody was talking about race um

0:57:53.200,0:57:57.040

constantly

0:57:54.319,0:57:57.680

so i think that that's that's that's you

0:57:57.040,0:57:59.920

know

0:57:57.680,0:58:01.200

you know but i also agree with um with

0:57:59.920,0:58:03.520

nicole i think that

0:58:01.200,0:58:06.240

the this idea of rural idol and the

0:58:03.520,0:58:06.240

ability to

0:58:06.839,0:58:12.640

uh kind of environmental as well as a

0:58:10.160,0:58:13.760

racialized element into a certain you

0:58:12.640,0:58:16.720

know provided a

0:58:13.760,0:58:17.440

sort of you know a larger descriptive

0:58:16.720,0:58:19.680

framework

0:58:17.440,0:58:20.799

to accommodate these different um these

0:58:19.680,0:58:23.440

different groups

0:58:20.799,0:58:25.119

so i'm sorry did i i'm and i'd also like

0:58:23.440,0:58:27.200

to go back to uh karina's

0:58:25.119,0:58:28.720

question um and comment about sort of

0:58:27.200,0:58:30.160

the effective and the cognitive aspect

0:58:28.720,0:58:30.960

and i think that that's that's really

0:58:30.160,0:58:32.799

important

0:58:30.960,0:58:34.160

there was i mean this this discourse was

0:58:32.799,0:58:37.520

emotional i mean people

0:58:34.160,0:58:39.359

people it magnified um

0:58:37.520,0:58:40.559

sort of the emotional investment of

0:58:39.359,0:58:42.640

people people were

0:58:40.559,0:58:44.240

very into it um not simply because of

0:58:42.640,0:58:44.720

the fact that people perceived it as a

0:58:44.240,0:58:47.599

threat

0:58:44.720,0:58:49.040

in a cognitive way and as a as a as a

0:58:47.599,0:58:50.960

threat to their sort of material

0:58:49.040,0:58:53.200

interests but also because

0:58:50.960,0:58:54.160

it was um because they they started to

0:58:53.200,0:58:56.559

believe um

0:58:54.160,0:58:57.359

in this rural idol um and it became

0:58:56.559,0:58:59.520

something that they

0:58:57.359,0:59:00.480

really felt very passionate about

0:58:59.520,0:59:02.640

defending

0:59:00.480,0:59:03.520

so you you did have sort of a cognitive

0:59:02.640,0:59:06.400

um sort of

0:59:03.520,0:59:07.200

a cognitive sort of framing of threat

0:59:06.400,0:59:10.079

but also

0:59:07.200,0:59:10.799

it was it was very very emotive um and i

0:59:10.079,0:59:13.920

think that that's

0:59:10.799,0:59:15.599

that's that unleashed um these energies

0:59:13.920,0:59:18.319

these emotional energies

0:59:15.599,0:59:19.280

um that that helped justify the types of

0:59:18.319,0:59:22.559

intense bully

0:59:19.280,0:59:23.119

um that we saw the town i don't think

0:59:22.559,0:59:26.400

that comes

0:59:23.119,0:59:28.400

out and and susan you brought up a

0:59:26.400,0:59:29.440

prison or a detention center and

0:59:28.400,0:59:32.960

actually in

0:59:29.440,0:59:35.040

that town several years earlier

0:59:32.960,0:59:36.960

there had been an effort to build a

0:59:35.040,0:59:40.799

prison nearby

0:59:36.960,0:59:44.319

and um the people we talked to

0:59:40.799,0:59:48.160

equated tyson with the prison

0:59:44.319,0:59:50.160

and in terms of how it would devalue the

0:59:48.160,0:59:51.359

town it would depreciate the value of

0:59:50.160,0:59:54.319

living in the town

0:59:51.359,0:59:55.359

if a prison or tyson were to be built in

0:59:54.319,0:59:58.839

the town

0:59:55.359,1:00:00.799

so um so someone actually made that that

0:59:58.839,1:00:05.359

comparison i think you need to

1:00:00.799,1:00:11.040

use your table what was that

1:00:05.359,1:00:11.040

okay oh hold on a sec

1:00:12.839,1:00:18.160

um i just i i think this is a really

1:00:15.599,1:00:20.400

fascinating and rich discussion

1:00:18.160,1:00:22.400

and i guess some of these points i don't

1:00:20.400,1:00:23.680

really think come out in the paper and i

1:00:22.400,1:00:25.839

think if you could

1:00:23.680,1:00:27.599

strengthen that and sort of sharpen the

1:00:25.839,1:00:29.359

focus i mean i'm

1:00:27.599,1:00:31.520

i'm not sure this is where you guys want

1:00:29.359,1:00:34.559

to go but it seems to me based on this

1:00:31.520,1:00:35.200

um discussion maybe maybe you don't just

1:00:34.559,1:00:37.280

have an

1:00:35.200,1:00:38.400

article that you know i think does need

1:00:37.280,1:00:41.280

some tightening or

1:00:38.400,1:00:42.160

or you know use of its its ethnographic

1:00:41.280,1:00:44.319

material

1:00:42.160,1:00:45.440

but maybe you actually have a monograph

1:00:44.319,1:00:48.160

in the making here

1:00:45.440,1:00:50.000

i mean so sorry to give you more work

1:00:48.160,1:00:50.480

but i think you know the discussion is

1:00:50.000,1:00:53.359

very

1:00:50.480,1:00:54.480

you know it's very rich and and i don't

1:00:53.359,1:00:57.680

think the paper

1:00:54.480,1:01:01.680

yet does justice to that

1:00:57.680,1:01:05.040

we have uh yes this is going to be

1:01:01.680,1:01:08.319

part of a monograph later um

1:01:05.040,1:01:11.680

this paper actually has gone through

1:01:08.319,1:01:14.880

a few reviews and a few versions

1:01:11.680,1:01:19.119

based on reviewers comments you know how

1:01:14.880,1:01:22.640

that happens and so initially we had

1:01:19.119,1:01:23.920

all of this in the paper it was a paper

1:01:22.640,1:01:28.079

doubled

1:01:23.920,1:01:31.280

the length and um so we decided to

1:01:28.079,1:01:34.480

make a separate paper with um

1:01:31.280,1:01:37.319

this the the identity

1:01:34.480,1:01:38.720

and the and the more classed

1:01:37.319,1:01:41.200

class-centered

1:01:38.720,1:01:42.480

paper and because there we can talk

1:01:41.200,1:01:45.920

about for instance

1:01:42.480,1:01:49.119

the efforts um on the part of the people

1:01:45.920,1:01:51.920

we i keep on referring to

1:01:49.119,1:01:53.119

to the people in the center of town

1:01:51.920,1:01:55.200

because they are the

1:01:53.119,1:01:56.960

the ones who have the power to mobilize

1:01:55.200,1:01:58.400

they have they're the ones who have the

1:01:56.960,1:02:02.240

power to

1:01:58.400,1:02:03.200

to engage the networks they're the ones

1:02:02.240,1:02:05.359

who

1:02:03.200,1:02:06.400

they're the ones who promote the middle

1:02:05.359,1:02:09.280

class

1:02:06.400,1:02:10.000

idea of the town and so they for

1:02:09.280,1:02:13.599

instance

1:02:10.000,1:02:16.000

in this paper we couldn't expand on

1:02:13.599,1:02:17.839

how the people who live in the trailer

1:02:16.000,1:02:20.720

park were completely

1:02:17.839,1:02:22.240

cut off physically from the rest of the

1:02:20.720,1:02:26.400

town

1:02:22.240,1:02:29.680

they overnight someone

1:02:26.400,1:02:32.799

the powers of the town um

1:02:29.680,1:02:34.720

blocked the road so that the trailer the

1:02:32.799,1:02:37.760

people who live in the trailer park

1:02:34.720,1:02:39.520

couldn't just drive and make a right

1:02:37.760,1:02:42.000

to go to the center of town where the

1:02:39.520,1:02:45.599

shops are they now have to drive

1:02:42.000,1:02:47.359

two miles through the back roads

1:02:45.599,1:02:49.200

to be able to make it to the to the

1:02:47.359,1:02:52.559

center of town for no reason

1:02:49.200,1:02:54.880

for no apparent reason so we we couldn't

1:02:52.559,1:02:55.920

um include all those really class

1:02:54.880,1:02:58.640

dynamics

1:02:55.920,1:03:00.559

in the in the paper and um in other

1:02:58.640,1:03:03.920

aspects that we have talked about

1:03:00.559,1:03:04.400

um today so that's we have reserved all

1:03:03.920,1:03:06.640

of this

1:03:04.400,1:03:08.480

for another paper and definitely it's

1:03:06.640,1:03:12.319

going to be part of um

1:03:08.480,1:03:15.440

the monograph on rural cancers that

1:03:12.319,1:03:16.240

that we're going to be doing later but

1:03:15.440,1:03:19.680

yeah this is

1:03:16.240,1:03:23.839

um what you've got is the

1:03:19.680,1:03:28.000

the paper that you read is the result of

1:03:23.839,1:03:33.760

multiple responses to reviewers comments

1:03:28.000,1:03:33.760

and so that's what the result was

1:03:35.920,1:03:41.119

okay any further questions or comments

1:03:41.760,1:03:47.119

some concluding thoughts from either

1:03:43.520,1:03:47.119

commentator or authors

1:03:48.960,1:03:54.160

no these are extremely useful and

1:03:51.760,1:03:57.680

helpful and

1:03:54.160,1:03:59.200

we will integrate as much of it as we

1:03:57.680,1:04:01.520

can

1:03:59.200,1:04:03.039

given of course space constraints in the

1:04:01.520,1:04:07.359

paper but this has been

1:04:03.039,1:04:10.319

but we will we would take a note to

1:04:07.359,1:04:11.280

integrate the comments in further in in

1:04:10.319,1:04:13.839

the second paper

1:04:11.280,1:04:14.880

and in further work and this has been

1:04:13.839,1:04:16.559

really really very

1:04:14.880,1:04:17.920

interesting and thank you so much for

1:04:16.559,1:04:19.760

reading the paper

1:04:17.920,1:04:21.680

and giving us this very thoughtful

1:04:19.760,1:04:24.799

comment especially chris

1:04:21.680,1:04:26.559

who spent more time with the paper and

1:04:24.799,1:04:28.400

um and to everybody who's given us

1:04:26.559,1:04:31.920

comments so it's really

1:04:28.400,1:04:35.520

and and nicole um joining us from iowa

1:04:31.920,1:04:39.839

thank you um so thanks everyone

1:04:35.520,1:04:42.799

for for your thoughtful

1:04:39.839,1:04:43.359

comments on the paper okay terrific so

1:04:42.799,1:04:45.280

thanks

1:04:43.359,1:04:47.200

to the authors for a terrific paper to

1:04:45.280,1:04:49.920

chris for a great comment for

1:04:47.200,1:04:52.319

sophia in particular for making sure

1:04:49.920,1:04:54.640

that this session took place

1:04:52.319,1:04:55.440

and uh so looking forward to seeing you

1:04:54.640,1:04:59.359

next month

1:04:55.440,1:05:01.839

uh on august 21st and uh in the meantime

1:04:59.359,1:05:04.160

stay healthy okay bye everybody thank

1:05:01.839,1:05:04.160

you

1:05:05.079,1:05:08.079

bye