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Hello, Welcome everyone to

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energy lousy UCLA podcast.

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Today we have Dr.

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Rajiv Gandhi and from

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Michigan State University.

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He is an assistant

professor in

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the Department of

Linguistics and

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languages and cultures at

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Michigan State

University since 2015.

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At MSU, Dr. engine is

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associated with the

Asian Studies Program,

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Master of Arts in

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foreign language

teaching program

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and Second Language

Studies Program.

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He received his PhD in

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second language

acquisition in 2016.

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His dissertation title

was acquisition of

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aggregative case

by L2 learners.

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Dr. Engines

primary area of

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research as generative

approach to SLE.

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He has created an online

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open education

resource textbook

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for basic in the 1 and

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is currently

working on basic.

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We'll do one.

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Welcome, Dr. engine.

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Thank you.

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In this podcast,

we're going to cover

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role and importance of

grandma for adjuncts.

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Teaching grammar with

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the current pedagogical

approaches,

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teaching grammar

deductively, inductively,

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implicitly and explicitly,

and challenges

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of teaching grammar to

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heritage language

learners,

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which we are going

to refer as HLS.

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A few suggestions

and recommendations.

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Some of the

discussion with you,

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Dr. origin, Y is Gromit

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instruction important for

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hitters languished

journals.

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So thank you, Javier.

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It's a wonderful

opportunity to talk to you.

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And I'll just jump

on the topic.

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The grammar is really

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important for heritage

language learners

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because if we look at

Gabriel next page,

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we're about Haiti

language learners.

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We can divide the heat is

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language learners in four

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different categories.

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However, the one category

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that are still

very familiar with

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the target language that

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associated hated

language learner.

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That's the quoted or CPC.

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Kind of defined that way.

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Even for them, it

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is important

because typically

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when we teach aided

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language learners

in a classroom,

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they have vocabulary

and even culture.

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They still do not make

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a longer sentences or

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a paragraph

level sentences

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because of the lack of

linguistic competence.

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So that's why I think

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it is really important for

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heritage language

learners to learn

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grammar and

even it's live.

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And colleagues also stated

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very explicitly in

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their research paper,

and I'm quoting them.

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Quote, educators

recognize the value of

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engaging learners in

critical analysis

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of existing

Bilingual Practices,

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an unbalance is

inherent, hey,

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inherent in bilingual

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or plural lingual

competencies

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through authentic and

meaningful tasks.

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At the same time,

it is puzzling that

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despite the use of

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authentic and

meaningful task,

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SLL heritage

language learners

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often seem to be

unable to move

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beyond the

intermediate level of

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language proficiency

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as measured by the act for

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proficiency guidelines

scale and a

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struggle to express

the complexity and

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nuances of their

rich identities

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in their home

language, unquote.

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So what that mean is,

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up to the

intermediate level.

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The hated language

learners can make

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the sentences and those

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are very interpretable

features there.

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They can use that.

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But when they

move forward,

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they want to be

really accurate

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than it without

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the remanence

trucks and hit is

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even hate his language

learners who struggle.

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And at the advanced level,

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we do need a little bit of

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more accuracy compared

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to an intermediate level.

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And hence, I think

grammar instruction is

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really important for

language learners

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or hated language

learners.

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That's wonderful.

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So is there an

empirical study

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that supports the need

of grammar instruction

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for Alto who had

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language learners or

for any other language?

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Yes, there, there are

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many empirical studies

that look at the,

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the role of grammar

to teach and an,

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a heritage language

proficiency development.

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Just to mention a

couple of them on

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programmable

bolus in 2008,

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they conducted the study

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and what they were

looking at is the use

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of data by L2 or L1 or L2

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language learners or

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non-native

language learners

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and hate his

language learners.

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And what they found

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that the metalinguistic

discussion,

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metalinguistic discussion

is the discus and

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when you talk about the

grammar or language.

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So that's metalinguistic

discussion,

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feedback and

targeted practice

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have both of them,

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both up the group

L2 learners

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and hated language

learners.

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Even Petrovsky et al,

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in 2009, they

conducted a study.

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And what they found is

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that that L2 learners and

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hate is language learners

both gained or both

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benefited from the, the

grammar instructions.

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And a tourist

in much later,

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maybe nine or ten

years later in 2018,

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also reviewed those

empirical studies

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and what tourists

found that

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the result that

both groups hate

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his language learners and

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non-native

language learners

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also benefit

from the task,

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but the task has to be

simple, not complex.

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So if I can.

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Kinda, based

on this study,

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if one can prove that in

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pico study also shows

that the type of

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instruction and task

complexity have

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a larger effect for

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the haters language

learners too.

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Just because they're

hated language learners,

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we cannot just give them

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a complex task because

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that can overwhelm them.

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And it's a complex task,

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require much of a

complex grammar.

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And without grammar

instructs and they would

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not be able to fulfill

the complex tasks.

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So this relates

back to the,

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I guess leave and

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the quote that I

mentioned that how

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grammar is important

for them to move

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from a intermediate

level, advanced level.

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Because for

advanced level they

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need to perform

more complex task.

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And hence the

grammar would be

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the tool to help them

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reach out or kind of

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complete complex tasks

to the advanced level.

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Thank you so

much for sharing

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these wonderful

research work.

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What do you owe? What do

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current pedagogical

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approaches say

about teaching?

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Grandma?

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Thank you for

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this amazing question

because this

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is the one topic

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that everybody's

talking about.

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The grammar translation

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becomes a taboo, right?

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The, Oh my God,

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you are teaching

grammar because

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that method has been

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kind of neglected or

not in the forefront.

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After the current

pedagogical approach

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is we each are

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guided by the

proficiency movement,

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right? This can

guess borrow.

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And in 1984 and you

can also look at

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the Act 1986 and

care I, 2016.

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They all talk about

the proficiency.

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Proficiency is important.

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But Professor

sea-based up what

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sets is communicative

approach or task-based?

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They all did never say

do not teach grammar.

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However, their approach of

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grammar teaching is

more of an implicit.

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And actually those kind of

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pedagogical approaches

do not give very sit,

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guidelines to the

language instructor

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to teach grammar.

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But it doesn't mean that

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they are sake do

not teach grammar.

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The way of grammar

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teaching could

be different,

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but they also do not like.

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Under valued the role of

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grammar is language

acquisition.

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What the focus is on

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communication when

you are making sense,

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or let's have the

communicative competence

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before the structural or

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linguistic competence

can be built in.

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So those are the

reasons that

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the modern days language

teaching approach

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is what we call the

macro approach,

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or more focused

on communication

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or task-based,

project-based and stuff.

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They do not they do not

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explicitly or

they do not put

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much emphasis on the

grammatical accuracy.

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What they've put

emphasis is on

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communicative competence,

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so communicative success.

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So, so to conclude that

we can say that, yes,

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modern grammatical

approaches do

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not focus much on grammar,

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but did not those

for null and void,

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the reuse of grammar or

the rule of grammar.

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So when we're teaching

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hated language learners,

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we have to keep

this idea in

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mind that even if

we are trying to

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teach those Haiti

language learners from

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the communicative

approach or

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task-based approach

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or project-based approach.

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We have to somehow

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insert the

grammar in some,

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some ways to help

them, right?

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Yeah, that's

wonderful insight

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to the grammar teaching

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here in the N2

focused teaching.

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So we'll talk about

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a few grammar teaching

techniques that

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teachers who are teaching

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the second language they

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can apply or maybe

use an idea.

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Yeah, sure, For sure.

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So there are like

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multiple ways of

teaching grammar.

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And if you'll go through

the literature of

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second language

acquisition are

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simple grammar teaching

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will find those things.

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So we have established,

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based on a previous

discussion

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and previous studies,

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that we need to teach

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grammar to hate is

language learners, right?

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Because the grammar is

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one important thing

that they are missing.

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And in the modern days,

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when we say that

the classroom

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should be

student-centered.

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And if our student

population demography

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00:09:33,490 --> 00:09:35,110

is Haidt is

language learners,

277

00:09:35,110 --> 00:09:36,880

then we have to

kind of mold

278

00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,550

our classes to

the need of that,

279

00:09:39,550 --> 00:09:41,095

those hated

language learners.

280

00:09:41,095 --> 00:09:42,535

So that said, there are

281

00:09:42,535 --> 00:09:44,650

different ways of

teaching grammar.

282

00:09:44,650 --> 00:09:46,195

You will see

that some time

283

00:09:46,195 --> 00:09:47,560

you can use deductive,

284

00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:49,435

which is also

descriptive grammar,

285

00:09:49,435 --> 00:09:50,515

are inductive.

286

00:09:50,515 --> 00:09:52,090

So our sometimes you

287

00:09:52,090 --> 00:09:53,620

can use functional

grammar or

288

00:09:53,620 --> 00:09:55,480

sometime people who try to

289

00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,850

teach grammar with

the concept based.

290

00:09:57,850 --> 00:10:00,015

And these all things

can be categorized in a

291

00:10:00,015 --> 00:10:01,825

implicit versus explicit

292

00:10:01,825 --> 00:10:03,160

ways of teaching grammar.

293

00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:04,390

So we can choose

294

00:10:04,390 --> 00:10:07,150

our strategies based on

the uninterpretable,

295

00:10:07,150 --> 00:10:09,490

uninterpretable

feature of a grandma.

296

00:10:09,490 --> 00:10:11,755

And I'll talk

more about that.

297

00:10:11,755 --> 00:10:15,475

So interpreter in

interpretable features

298

00:10:15,475 --> 00:10:18,040

are the features which

have semantic value.

299

00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,930

So for example,

300

00:10:19,930 --> 00:10:22,960

number in Hindi when

you say a lurker,

301

00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,820

which is similar,

and letter K,

302

00:10:24,820 --> 00:10:26,875

which is plural, boys.

303

00:10:26,875 --> 00:10:27,910

And that has a meaning

304

00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:29,125

attached to that, right?

305

00:10:29,125 --> 00:10:31,030

But uninterpretable

features should be

306

00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:33,295

the features we do not

have semantic value.

307

00:10:33,295 --> 00:10:35,035

For example, if I say

308

00:10:35,035 --> 00:10:37,705

maze and I say

maize is feminine,

309

00:10:37,705 --> 00:10:40,405

in a maze, that means

table in English.

310

00:10:40,405 --> 00:10:42,205

But in Hindi,

maize is family,

311

00:10:42,205 --> 00:10:45,190

and that feminine as a

feature of the word,

312

00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:48,190

has no semantic

value to contribute.

313

00:10:48,190 --> 00:10:50,440

If somebody says

majors masculine,

314

00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,230

the measure to

still be table.

315

00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:55,130

And eight, it will be

just ungrammatical.

316

00:10:55,130 --> 00:10:57,380

So depending on

the what kind of

317

00:10:57,380 --> 00:11:01,355

feature that instructor

is trying to teach,

318

00:11:01,355 --> 00:11:03,605

they can choose different

ways of teaching,

319

00:11:03,605 --> 00:11:05,660

like deductively

or inductively,

320

00:11:05,660 --> 00:11:07,670

or implicitly

or explicitly.

321

00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:09,860

So talking

322

00:11:09,860 --> 00:11:11,180

about deductive

and inductive

323

00:11:11,180 --> 00:11:12,365

approach more

a little bit.

324

00:11:12,365 --> 00:11:15,440

So reductive

can be used to

325

00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,110

teach interpretable

feature of

326

00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:19,370

Hindi grandma,

for example,

327

00:11:19,370 --> 00:11:20,555

noun or adjective and

328

00:11:20,555 --> 00:11:22,190

verbs and push play

some condense and,

329

00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:25,145

and what we do

in deducing,

330

00:11:25,145 --> 00:11:28,475

like, let's say you

gave a short story,

331

00:11:28,475 --> 00:11:30,050

used authentic

material for

332

00:11:30,050 --> 00:11:31,430

the hated language

learners.

333

00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:32,930

And you can ask them like,

334

00:11:32,930 --> 00:11:34,950

okay, look at this.

335

00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,465

Reading an

underline, the word

336

00:11:38,465 --> 00:11:41,015

that you think is singular

and plural, right?

337

00:11:41,015 --> 00:11:44,210

So what learners will

do, they'll go around,

338

00:11:44,210 --> 00:11:46,670

read the story, and

339

00:11:46,670 --> 00:11:49,520

they will underline

the, the nouns.

340

00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,335

And then you can ask,

341

00:11:51,335 --> 00:11:52,505

so what's the

difference with

342

00:11:52,505 --> 00:11:54,140

different form

of these noun?

343

00:11:54,140 --> 00:11:56,090

How the singular

noun loops

344

00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:57,560

versus the plural

noun books.

345

00:11:57,560 --> 00:11:58,910

And they can, they can

346

00:11:58,910 --> 00:12:02,000

deduce those

grammatical rules.

347

00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,680

And they can also,

348

00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,180

teacher can be helpful to

349

00:12:05,180 --> 00:12:06,770

or you can put

them in a group.

350

00:12:06,770 --> 00:12:09,050

So the pair work

would be helpful too.

351

00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:10,340

So what they will do, they

352

00:12:10,340 --> 00:12:11,945

will co-construct

their own rules.

353

00:12:11,945 --> 00:12:13,355

Inductive is

354

00:12:13,355 --> 00:12:14,300

something for

355

00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:15,860

uninterpretable

features because

356

00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:17,210

the features that

does not have

357

00:12:17,210 --> 00:12:20,465

semantic contributes

and in the sentences,

358

00:12:20,465 --> 00:12:23,060

you need to draw that in.

359

00:12:23,060 --> 00:12:24,560

So not the learner.

For example,

360

00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:25,985

the obliques form.

361

00:12:25,985 --> 00:12:27,875

If I say, for example,

362

00:12:27,875 --> 00:12:30,875

camera MAY, which

means in a room.

363

00:12:30,875 --> 00:12:33,260

So camera maze

ungrammatical,

364

00:12:33,260 --> 00:12:35,780

but come remain would

be grammatical.

365

00:12:35,780 --> 00:12:37,940

So what is the difference

between camera

366

00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:39,710

versus Combray that come

367

00:12:39,710 --> 00:12:40,970

raise an oblique form.

368

00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:42,365

But the camera is camera.

369

00:12:42,365 --> 00:12:44,150

The room has a

clear meaning.

370

00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:46,190

So the learner might

not be able to

371

00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:48,455

focus on those

different form,

372

00:12:48,455 --> 00:12:52,370

which has no semantic

if fences, right?

373

00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:54,215

So that's why it

is important too.

374

00:12:54,215 --> 00:12:56,240

Maybe teach those features

375

00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,445

more inductively.

So teach them.

376

00:12:58,445 --> 00:13:03,035

So the, the idea is that

in deductive manner,

377

00:13:03,035 --> 00:13:04,700

one activity I can

378

00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:07,295

suggest is something

like based activity.

379

00:13:07,295 --> 00:13:09,410

Where you then,

like I said,

380

00:13:09,410 --> 00:13:10,790

presented such

stories with

381

00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:11,630

the noun and asked

382

00:13:11,630 --> 00:13:14,150

them to underline

the nouns,

383

00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:16,640

which is the

a, a 10 cents.

384

00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,560

So pace stands

for presentation.

385

00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:20,330

Atkinson, C stands for

386

00:13:20,330 --> 00:13:23,480

co-construct sun and is

tends for extension.

387

00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,235

So then you ask them to

388

00:13:25,235 --> 00:13:27,410

underline the noun what

389

00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:28,820

we're doing as

an instructor,

390

00:13:28,820 --> 00:13:30,380

you are drawing

their attention to

391

00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:32,795

those nouns,

singular and plural.

392

00:13:32,795 --> 00:13:34,205

And then maybe ask

393

00:13:34,205 --> 00:13:36,530

the learners in

a group two,

394

00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:38,000

construct their own rule

395

00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,380

for singular and plural.

396

00:13:39,380 --> 00:13:42,110

And a teacher can also

jump in and help and

397

00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:44,600

then asked them to do

some extent sense.

398

00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,640

So give them some

few vocabulary

399

00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:47,690

in noun and asked and like

400

00:13:47,690 --> 00:13:48,890

based on your own rule,

401

00:13:48,890 --> 00:13:50,765

what would be the

plural of these nouns?

402

00:13:50,765 --> 00:13:53,480

So that would be a

detective style of

403

00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,580

grammar teaching based

404

00:13:55,580 --> 00:13:57,395

on the authentic material.

405

00:13:57,395 --> 00:13:59,000

Whereas inductively,

406

00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,640

you have to present

the rules first.

407

00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:02,705

So PPP, you'd be

408

00:14:02,705 --> 00:14:03,800

a great example of

409

00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,705

inductive style of

grammar teaching,

410

00:14:05,705 --> 00:14:07,250

where you present

the rules and you

411

00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:08,690

can ask them to practice a

412

00:14:08,690 --> 00:14:10,340

little bit and

then ask them to

413

00:14:10,340 --> 00:14:14,825

produce something

so inductively.

414

00:14:14,825 --> 00:14:17,330

We can use it method of

415

00:14:17,330 --> 00:14:18,530

grammar teaching for those

416

00:14:18,530 --> 00:14:19,715

features in a language

417

00:14:19,715 --> 00:14:21,005

which does not have really

418

00:14:21,005 --> 00:14:24,890

a meaning and enhance

the learner would not

419

00:14:24,890 --> 00:14:26,600

be able to notice

420

00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,360

any differences in terms

421

00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,595

of meaning because just

focus on the form.

422

00:14:31,595 --> 00:14:32,840

So for these things,

423

00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:34,010

we need to just draw

424

00:14:34,010 --> 00:14:35,660

that in San office to run,

425

00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:37,550

starting with

sewing the rule and

426

00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:40,100

giving them little

bit more practice.

427

00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:41,330

Wonderful.

428

00:14:41,330 --> 00:14:42,560

I really liked the example

429

00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,060

and the styles that

you've given in

430

00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:45,530

order to teach trauma as

431

00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:47,749

part of the second

language instructions.

432

00:14:47,749 --> 00:14:49,580

We heard a lot

about implicit

433

00:14:49,580 --> 00:14:51,620

versus explicit teaching.

434

00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:52,820

What are these methods and

435

00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:54,980

their relevance in

the drama teaching?

436

00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:56,840

Oh, that's great. So the

437

00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,875

implicit versus explicit.

438

00:14:58,875 --> 00:15:00,880

We've talked a lot

439

00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,835

these days by

instructed SLA.

440

00:15:03,835 --> 00:15:06,130

So instructed SLA

is a subfield

441

00:15:06,130 --> 00:15:08,665

of SLA or second

language acquisition.

442

00:15:08,665 --> 00:15:11,590

My colleague stone

low and at MSU has

443

00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:14,830

a textbook on on

instructed SLA And and I

444

00:15:14,830 --> 00:15:16,810

do teach a

instructed SLA to

445

00:15:16,810 --> 00:15:19,480

my muffled students where

446

00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:20,980

I teach the theory course

447

00:15:20,980 --> 00:15:21,970

in which we tried to

448

00:15:21,970 --> 00:15:24,640

explore some of the

grammatical features.

449

00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,220

So for various

languages and students

450

00:15:27,220 --> 00:15:28,420

are asked to do

a little bit

451

00:15:28,420 --> 00:15:29,800

of empirical research.

452

00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,440

And they decide

whether implicit or

453

00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:33,835

explicit to teach

454

00:15:33,835 --> 00:15:36,220

grammar teaching

is better and,

455

00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:37,450

and sometime

they come with

456

00:15:37,450 --> 00:15:39,040

the one reserves or

the other readers.

457

00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,345

So the debate, which,

458

00:15:40,345 --> 00:15:43,555

which way Better is still,

459

00:15:43,555 --> 00:15:45,160

the debate is still on.

460

00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,279

We cannot kind of conclude

461

00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:49,960

that what way of

462

00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:50,830

grammar teaching is

463

00:15:50,830 --> 00:15:52,210

the better

grandma teaching,

464

00:15:52,210 --> 00:15:54,160

just for the

grammatical development

465

00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:55,660

or grammatical knowledge.

466

00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,180

However, based on

467

00:15:58,180 --> 00:16:01,930

my own teaching and

learning experiences,

468

00:16:01,930 --> 00:16:04,720

I can, I feel that

explicit ref,

469

00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,430

so the explicit refers to

470

00:16:06,430 --> 00:16:08,365

the learning

grammar concepts.

471

00:16:08,365 --> 00:16:10,060

So you are asked, okay,

472

00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:13,134

Today we are going to

learn present habitual.

473

00:16:13,134 --> 00:16:14,980

And then you present

474

00:16:14,980 --> 00:16:17,634

the rule and then

stood in practice,

475

00:16:17,634 --> 00:16:18,880

and then they learn it.

476

00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,640

All right? Or maybe

you can say like okay,

477

00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,060

here is the story in which

478

00:16:24,060 --> 00:16:26,600

Somebody is a spy

479

00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:27,950

and who is collecting

480

00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:29,675

information about

the suspect.

481

00:16:29,675 --> 00:16:31,760

And that person

made the story of

482

00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,310

what the what the

the person who

483

00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:36,200

is being observed is

484

00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,870

doing each day or every

day at what time,

485

00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:40,535

what he or she does.

486

00:16:40,535 --> 00:16:42,980

Then you can

ask the student

487

00:16:42,980 --> 00:16:44,060

to figure out

488

00:16:44,060 --> 00:16:46,280

the common pattern

in those sentences.

489

00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,140

So probably you will

490

00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:49,640

get the habitual

constructs.

491

00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:50,960

Unlike in Hindi, we have

492

00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,375

our head TA,

for example, X,

493

00:16:53,375 --> 00:16:55,850

SAT, but you

have no budget,

494

00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:58,100

coffee peta head,

That's a bank job.

495

00:16:58,100 --> 00:16:59,960

The Hague error,

budget bank,

496

00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:01,580

say lapis out their hair

497

00:17:01,580 --> 00:17:03,035

barrier with

the Kennecott.

498

00:17:03,035 --> 00:17:06,365

So in these kind of

authentic material,

499

00:17:06,365 --> 00:17:07,850

when you are

teaching explicitly,

500

00:17:07,850 --> 00:17:09,710

you can ask them to

underline the dot,

501

00:17:09,710 --> 00:17:10,970

dot dot constructs and

502

00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:12,920

eventually they'll

get it right.

503

00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,545

But in, by contour

504

00:17:15,545 --> 00:17:17,045

past implicit

language learning,

505

00:17:17,045 --> 00:17:18,875

it's unconscious behavior.

506

00:17:18,875 --> 00:17:20,360

So you do not really say

507

00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:22,940

what grammar pattern

we're going to learn.

508

00:17:22,940 --> 00:17:24,470

You ask them to eat

509

00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:26,570

something and maybe ask

them to like, okay,

510

00:17:26,570 --> 00:17:28,820

so can you be the spy and

511

00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:29,840

can you collect this

512

00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,580

information about

the suspect?

513

00:17:31,580 --> 00:17:33,440

And what they're trying to

514

00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,765

do is trying to do a task,

515

00:17:35,765 --> 00:17:37,730

writing a report about

516

00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:39,980

the suspect that

what she or he does.

517

00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:41,300

But in doing so,

518

00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:43,445

they are using

habitual, right?

519

00:17:43,445 --> 00:17:46,205

Students don't know

what grammar structure,

520

00:17:46,205 --> 00:17:47,120

grammar,

521

00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,070

grammatical knowledge

of grammatical item

522

00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:51,350

they're learning, but

what they're doing,

523

00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:52,910

they're doing a

conversation or

524

00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:54,800

communicating what

task-based approach or

525

00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,140

doing some project

in order to complete

526

00:17:57,140 --> 00:18:00,335

that project using the

habitual construction.

527

00:18:00,335 --> 00:18:03,125

So cognitive psychology or

528

00:18:03,125 --> 00:18:05,135

talks a lot about this,

529

00:18:05,135 --> 00:18:07,940

that a statistical

learning is possible.

530

00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:09,710

So what does that mean?

531

00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:13,580

If the NF input page

exposed to the learners,

532

00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:16,220

and then learners

cognitively able to see

533

00:18:16,220 --> 00:18:19,490

the pattern coming

out of that input.

534

00:18:19,490 --> 00:18:20,870

And they make their own

535

00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:23,450

subconscious or

unconscious rule

536

00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:25,850

about that particular

structure.

537

00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:29,240

That's sort of an

implicit grandma,

538

00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,710

style of grammar teaching.

539

00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:34,460

That said, I would also

say that modern days,

540

00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:36,110

because the

communicative approach

541

00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:37,160

or macro approaches do

542

00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,070

not allow to explicitly

teach grammar.

543

00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:41,660

So hence, the implicit

544

00:18:41,660 --> 00:18:42,950

way of teaching grammar

545

00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:46,505

is really important

to learn.

546

00:18:46,505 --> 00:18:50,180

To just kind of slide

in a very smoothly

547

00:18:50,180 --> 00:18:51,740

in terms of a

modern approach

548

00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:54,270

of language teaching.

549

00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:57,710

That's wonderful.

So in your opinion,

550

00:18:57,710 --> 00:18:59,420

what are the challenges

to teach grammar

551

00:18:59,420 --> 00:19:01,655

to heritage

language learners?

552

00:19:01,655 --> 00:19:05,690

There are a lot of

challenges to just

553

00:19:05,690 --> 00:19:07,430

begin with fear

for fear of

554

00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:08,480

not following the current

555

00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:09,500

pedagogical approach.

556

00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:11,165

Say if you are an

instructor at,

557

00:19:11,165 --> 00:19:13,010

either at the

community school

558

00:19:13,010 --> 00:19:15,860

or at the college or at

the university level.

559

00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:18,230

And people will say,

560

00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:20,585

Oh, you are teaching

grammar or translation.

561

00:19:20,585 --> 00:19:23,060

It's not a very

modern and up to date

562

00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:25,700

graham language

teaching method.

563

00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:27,290

And so that's kind

564

00:19:27,290 --> 00:19:29,720

of people are judging

you that you are

565

00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,390

not using the

appropriate or

566

00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:34,115

the modern or

current or updated

567

00:19:34,115 --> 00:19:37,055

teaching kind

of approaches.

568

00:19:37,055 --> 00:19:39,170

The point is that if

569

00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:41,960

the prisoners

need something,

570

00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,555

we do not have to shy

away just because

571

00:19:44,555 --> 00:19:45,950

the modern approach is

572

00:19:45,950 --> 00:19:47,615

not explicitly

saying that.

573

00:19:47,615 --> 00:19:50,240

That said, I want

to reiterate

574

00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,460

that macro purchase of

575

00:19:52,460 --> 00:19:54,950

language teaching or

communicative approach,

576

00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:56,120

a task-based approach or

577

00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:58,040

hate earned on

stuff like that.

578

00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,765

They never said

Don't teach grammar.

579

00:19:59,765 --> 00:20:02,150

What they're saying,

that the importance

580

00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:03,020

is communi case and

581

00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:04,730

not the grammatical

accuracy.

582

00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:07,055

So maybe teach

grammar implicitly.

583

00:20:07,055 --> 00:20:08,780

So that's the one fear,

584

00:20:08,780 --> 00:20:10,460

the taboo about

the grammar

585

00:20:10,460 --> 00:20:12,860

translation method

has to go away.

586

00:20:12,860 --> 00:20:15,530

A good language

teacher would be able

587

00:20:15,530 --> 00:20:17,240

to kind of mix

588

00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,520

and match different

approaches.

589

00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,420

Language teaching and

kind of use whatever

590

00:20:23,420 --> 00:20:26,135

feels right in

a given class

591

00:20:26,135 --> 00:20:28,100

or in their lesson plan.

592

00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:30,425

The other problem is that

593

00:20:30,425 --> 00:20:32,600

the grammar instruction

instruction is

594

00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,970

really important for

Haiti language learners.

595

00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:37,010

However, we have

a mixed classes.

596

00:20:37,010 --> 00:20:38,450

So those are the

real challenge.

597

00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:39,770

And how do you

make the balance

598

00:20:39,770 --> 00:20:41,045

between the L2 or

599

00:20:41,045 --> 00:20:42,290

non hated and hate is

600

00:20:42,290 --> 00:20:44,285

language learners in

the same classroom.

601

00:20:44,285 --> 00:20:46,190

Lack of teacher

training is

602

00:20:46,190 --> 00:20:48,515

also a kind of an issue.

603

00:20:48,515 --> 00:20:50,510

So these are the

couple of issues

604

00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:53,700

for our challenges

to teach grammar.

605

00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:56,525

Thank you so much

for sharing.

606

00:20:56,525 --> 00:20:57,920

So one final question.

607

00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,000

What are your

suggestions and

608

00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,925

recommendations to

improve drama for Agile?

609

00:21:01,925 --> 00:21:05,735

So my suggestions and

recommendations is to,

610

00:21:05,735 --> 00:21:07,505

if the language

teaching should be

611

00:21:07,505 --> 00:21:08,780

the learner center and

612

00:21:08,780 --> 00:21:10,400

if HLA requires grammar,

613

00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,900

then this would

include program.

614

00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:15,485

It can kind of stuff

in our curriculum.

615

00:21:15,485 --> 00:21:16,940

Second, teachers

need to learn

616

00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:19,100

about types of

grammatical features and

617

00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:20,735

figure out what

approach is

618

00:21:20,735 --> 00:21:21,965

appropriate to teach those

619

00:21:21,965 --> 00:21:23,225

grammatical features.

620

00:21:23,225 --> 00:21:24,440

Teacher also need to be

621

00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,075

trained to use

mixed methods.

622

00:21:26,075 --> 00:21:27,620

So it's not just

the communicative,

623

00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:28,820

communicative

communicated.

624

00:21:28,820 --> 00:21:32,090

Maybe you can use other

teaching methods to

625

00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:34,370

kind of address the need

626

00:21:34,370 --> 00:21:36,545

of your demography

in your classroom.

627

00:21:36,545 --> 00:21:39,230

And then, as I cannot

628

00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:40,460

say enough that

629

00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:41,885

no teaching

approaches are bad,

630

00:21:41,885 --> 00:21:44,630

what you need to do or

need to learn is how

631

00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:47,945

to mix those approaches

for your benefit.

632

00:21:47,945 --> 00:21:50,120

Instructs the instructors.

633

00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:51,110

There's a gap between

634

00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:52,760

researchers and teachers.

635

00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,040

And the researchers do

636

00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,390

their own research

and come up with

637

00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:58,040

the empirical studies that

638

00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,080

will also help

the instructor.

639

00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,315

But instructor should also

640

00:22:02,315 --> 00:22:04,130

read the empirical

studies such

641

00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:06,410

as a bolus or

642

00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:08,720

put whiskey and her

colleague and tourists.

643

00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,100

Stuff that I talked

644

00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:12,245

about this in

this podcast.

645

00:22:12,245 --> 00:22:15,020

Those are the vehicle

study that will

646

00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:17,840

give you that little

bit of idea that

647

00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,820

how acquisition

happens and

648

00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:21,080

what can or cannot be

649

00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,580

used in terms of

650

00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:25,860

teaching grammar

within the classroom.

651

00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,420

Thank you so much

Dr. engine for

652

00:22:29,420 --> 00:22:31,340

your wonderful insight

653

00:22:31,340 --> 00:22:33,290

on teaching of grammar.

654

00:22:33,290 --> 00:22:36,710

And your insight will

655

00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:38,930

definitely going to

help the teachers who

656

00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:43,040

are going to

have grammar as

657

00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,950

part of their L2 pedagogy

658

00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:47,180

as well as instructions.

659

00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:48,950

Thank you so much

for being plank.

660

00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:49,670

You have yeah, It was

661

00:22:49,670 --> 00:22:50,690

pleasure talking to you.

662

00:22:50,690 --> 00:22:52,110

Thank you.