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distinguished speaker today, Professor Elizabeth Carragher from the University of California at Riverside where she is Assistant Professor of Anthropology. And he was trained at the University of North Carolina, in bio archaeology, one of the sub disciplines of archaeology that's now making huge waves everywhere. And of course, that's something that people are very interested in in China. And it so happens that Professor Baca is perfect in China. And so she has been able to conduct important fieldwork.

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her dissertation, as far as I know, hasn't been published yet, as

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Yes, but there are numerous articles. And this work actually was generated at a site in central Shanxi Province, where UCLA was involved in running a field school for more than a decade, in theory, even by continuous if the times allow. But anyway, that field school involves the exploration of the prehistoric Neolithic site of young one giant mass Maxx inside of constants. The area had been inhabited over the centuries, they were also later fine. And this about these finds that we are going to hear about that to hear today. Professor bariga was for a while, in fact, the the field director of the American theatre director anyway of the field school, and

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a very important member of the team.

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And that's when she

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collected the materials we are going to hear about to take. So if we ask you to join me in welcoming very positively to UCLA professor, it is the

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first of many visits, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you for the invitation, I'm really happy to be here to share this work. So my, my main line of work is in prehistoric bio archaeology, Bronze Age, transition and human environment or action on climate change. And so to have the opportunity to work on historical materials has been a big shift and really, really stimulating for me. So I'm

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very interested to hear feedback and, and ideas or thoughts from people who work on historical periods, because I want to continue this line of research. So

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the, I want to just give a content warning, there will be pictures of human remains in this talk. That is

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not so the the work that I'm going to talk about in this talk is conducted with Chinese colleagues in China and Chinese institutions where the study of human remains has a different cultural and legal framework than it does here in the United States. And so, for example, sharing the names of specific historical individuals that I'm going to be showing the remains of today is not something that is something that's considered

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acceptable they are culturally and so I just wanted to acknowledge that before I get started.

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So, as low tar said, the material that I'm talking about today came from a site in chunxi. That is primarily under investigation as a Neolithic settlement and a Neolithic cemetery. But there is some later usage of the cemetery that is actually directly intrusive into the Neolithic graves, which is interesting in its own right, but that's what I'm going to be talking about today.

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The framing of the talk is an area that we could call historical bio archaeology. My training is an anthropological archaeology and biological anthropology. So that really informs my approach to this work. And so in a framework of historical bio archaeology, we have multiple types of sources that come together and speak to each other. You have, for example, texts that are recounting the main events of not only entire regions, or populations, or even families, but individuals in this case. So we have texts that record the individual's life events, their specific relationships, their status within their community, their interests, and then we have their skeletons which relay an entirely different set of information about their daily activity, their diet and the injuries or diseases that they suffered during their life. And so when you interpret both of those, the textual and the skeletal record in the con

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Next up the archaeological record, you get some very interesting results.

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And what those those results come out of what I'm calling productive tensions. So there's multiple tensions within the approach of historical bioarchaeology. Three main tensions that between the skeleton and the textual record, we could also call them dialogues, tensions, dialogues, but they are productive. So skeleton versus text, the individual person versus the population, and the public sphere versus the private sphere. So first, we have information that is inscribed in texts.

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In this case, both historical primary sources such as counter Gazda, tears, which I'll be talking about, and also the tomb inscriptions that give information about individuals. And then we also have information inscribed in skeletons. And both of those are obviously very different types of sources. And there are different forces that create those two different records. So I'm going to make the argument that of course, we shouldn't be privileging one over the other, they both contain different types of information that overlap and sometimes contradict it. But those contradictions are not something that we should dismiss as a problem or try to resolve I'm gonna argue, which is something that other historical archaeologists have written about very eloquently that when there's a discrepancy between the skeletal and the textual record, that's actually a fruitful thing to explore, because it teaches us about the forces that created both of those records,

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in terms of the population versus the individual, historical bioarchaeology, in some senses about populations, right? So bio archaeology as a field, especially in North America is very interested in the population level. So what are the big trends in health, in status in sex differences in demography, and those are things that we can study. But there's also a way to study the lives of individual people. The analysis of an individual life can reveal a lot about the past, if we contextualize it within the broader population, and the population can can give us more information if we look at how those population level forces play out in the lives of individuals. So this is something that's been discussed also by historians in the form of micro histories or at the Biographical turn. So this is something that that is being discussed, from a theoretical perspective at multiple fields.

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And then finally, the public versus the private this, this is

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an interesting area for the particular case I'm going to talk about today, because we have as a textual source, we have epitaphs, right, and inscriptions that were included in graves, which were in some sense, both public and private texts, they were written and commissioned to be inscribed on stone on the event of someone's death and placed inside the tomb, so sealed inside the tomb, and therefore not visible to the public. But they were also the text of these inscriptions was then often published in a form that was circulated to the broader community. So it was intended to be shared, intended to be made public. And the skeleton itself is also public and private. In a way the skeleton records the most intimate details of a person's life, right, what what their day to day activities were, what their injuries were, what their diseases were, what they ate, what they if they chewed on a toothpick, every day of their life, those are the private details that are recorded in the skeleton, but they also record their place in society, right. So how your gender interacts with your status and how your place in your community affects what your body endures during your lifetime. So that is, in a sense, also a public

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public information that is recorded in a skeleton.

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There's an interesting formulation that that I find very helpful from Dorothy Coe, which is discussing how the body functions in historical China and that

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basically, the way we conceive of the body now as being totally segregated from the population, right from the outside world. This is my individual body, and there's a boundary around it. And that is separate from my relationship to other people that in historical China, it seems that that that boundary between individual and public may have been a bit more fluid so that things such as bodily adornment, like hairstyles and clothing, and bodily modification, like foot findings were not seen as so different. And they're both important the body, an individual's body and how it was presented was important in upholding social rules and social distinctions of class and ethnicity and gender.

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And I'll get into that in more detail during the talk.

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Okay, so the site to place us geographically here's Xi province. Zooming in this is the Guangdong basin, the modern city of Shenzhen. And then the Jing and Wei river valleys. So we're talking about an area in the Jing Wei floodplain. This is a map with the modern streets overlaid. And these are the modern villages. And so we have the Neolithic site of Yan fungi, which takes its name from this village. And then just to the northeast of it was discovered of Neolithic cemetery that was associated with the Neolithic settlement, and also multiple historical periods of graves, including a the largest number of them being from the Ming Dynasty. And that cemetery, the Ming Dynasty cemetery is that takes its name from the this village to twin.

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So we talked about the young one Jai site that's referring to the Neolithic site, and then upper or Shang shoots when is referring to the main cemetery. So you can see this is this is Neolithic, burials, most of these and there's been 213 excavated as of the last official report carbon data to several 1000 years ago. And then we have 21 graves or tombs from the late Ming Dynasty, so much, much more recent, obviously in historic time, that were discovered during the excavation of the Neolithic cemetery and are

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intrusive, actually deeper than the Neolithic graves. The Neolithic graves are extremely shallow under the modern surface and are very poorly preserved as a result, but the main graves are very deep and also are brick structures and so they are extremely well preserved. The skeletons are a very, very good condition. Those graves, the main graves were excavated in 2014 and 2015 by a team from the church Chicago yet Julian, the Shotzi archaeological Academy, led by yami Payne, who was one of the field directors, and was he was the field director of the young lungi project and one of the directors of the field school. And of those 21 tombs, four of them contain stone epitaphs. So these are large stone slabs that have been engraved with a composition that some of you might be familiar with this genre called moocher meeting. So a description of a person's life it tells, when they were born, the year they died, the year they were interred in or buried in their tomb, which is often different from the year they died. The main events of their life, what their personality was like in an idealized form, right, but description of their life and a description of their lineage and their family history. So an extremely rich source of information.

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The stone epitaphs were transcribed and translated by eoA, who was one of the other directors of the film school,

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and also a graduate of UCLA. And so the content of the epitaphs that I'm going to talk about today are from her work. And then I also was able to examine the skeletons from the main tombs. So there were 23 individual skeletons available to examine.

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So this is an example of one of the epitaphs. Again, they trace the whole history of the family in the area. And then also the individual person's own life, their dates, and then more sort of colorful details, anecdotes from their life story. And, importantly, we have that for male and female members of the family. So we have a picture of of men and women's lives.

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And so this give this, this site gives us a really exciting way to use multiple methods. And the methods that we're using are somewhat eclectic, right, so we have a paper fee. We have also historical research on primary sources, which I'm going to talk about, we have archaeological research on the tomb structure and tomb contents. And then we have the osteological analysis. And so it's a it's been I've had, I've spent a lot of time thinking how to bring these different records together and make them talk to each other in a meaningful way. So I'm very interested to hear thoughts right on this because I'm hoping it's going to be an ongoing area of research. Okay, so historically,

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so we have the epitaphs of course and then we also have other primary historical sources that yo I was able to consult such as county gazzard tears. So these are local historical records of a particular county. The county we're talking about here is Galilean County in Shanxi province and the first stanza tear was written in 1541. So during the Ming Dynasty, and then there's been multiple editions up to the year 2000 was the most recent edition of the Gallic tonic as a tier. She was also able to consult historical maps and then

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then we, and then and then we've also consulted secondary historical sources. And so, according to the epitaphs, the tunes at shoots when belonged to a family called the genres that has lived in the area for about 900 years, according to the,

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to the description of their lineage. They were local landowners, Gentry, local business leaders, sometimes minor scholars, and they had they made money from their land and they also had other businesses. One epitaph describes their ideal as living by whom do plowing and reading so basically cultivating the land and cultivating the mind that was their sort of ideal way of living.

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They had lived in the area, as I said, for 900 years in several different villages, two of which actually still have the same name to this day. So for over 1000 years, the topo dams in this area are very stable. And

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one of the villages they had lived in was called Huntsman, which is still there today. It's now farther from the river, but at the time, it was on the Jing River, it was a port town and the John family apparently would build a pontoon bridge every season that they would maintain. So they were known as the pontoon bridge, John's, the fuccillo, John Deere.

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And they most likely would have belonged to a social class that was termed the sound Shun, which is translated into English often as Gentry, which is kind of misleading because it's not exactly equivalent to say English landed gentry.

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The exact nature of this class during the Ming Dynasty is somewhat debated still, but it the assumption probably included families who could afford education. And some of the members did achieve some kind of official status, some kind of official degrees through the examination system. One of the members of the John family described in the epitaphs did achieve one did achieve a degree and a government position, a lower level government position. And

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I found it I found it helpful to use a distinction that is drawn by James sure an historian who wrote about this the the history of rural Maine, China, and he draws a distinction between Gentry landlords and commoner landlords. So the distinction there is that Gentry landlords would have had official titles and wouldn't have performed their own physical labor. And their status would have come not only from their land holdings, but also their official recognized titles, whereas commoner landlords wouldn't have had any official titles. They would have hired laborers, but also conduct done some of their own labor on their own property. The son, their sons would have worked the land, their wives would have made handicrafts. And they had education. They had scholarly aspirations, but they were mainly concerned with their businesses and the tending of their properties and their commercial endeavors. So they're described there, the ideal common or landlord was someone who was thrifty and hardworking. And they provided a lot of aid to their communities and so forth. And so I'm gonna get into more detail in the epitaphs. But I believe that describes the Jonk family very, very accurately.

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This village here is shoots when it's there's a there's a zoo there, but this is shoots when so it's pretty much still in the same location today.

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The wonderful region at this time was an exporter of wool, but the main agricultural activity was growing staples like wheat and millet. And the rural economy was shifting at the time. And so there was social and environmental conditions that were making economies of scale more desirable, so more and more land was being concentrated in the hands of fewer landowners to have instead of more small farmers, you're having more and more large farms owned by wealthy families

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of draught animals were used in North China at this time, but they were most desirable and economically viable for large hand holders. So people with more than 100 Move or 6.4 hectares of land.

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And agricultural productivity was pretty stagnant at this time, actually. So there was population growth, but agricultural technology was relatively stagnant. So the amount of cultivated land per capita was going down, which meant that life expectancy also was declining after about 1500. Population growth was slowing.

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And there was also unrelenting environmental disasters. We have multiple recorded droughts in the 15th and 16th centuries, floods across North China, epidemics accompanying those floods. The greatest famine in the main era took place in 1486 to 1487. And it's actually mentioned in the epitaphs, which I'll come to

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and so at this time when the John family

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lived in darling County. And when they were very that shoots when they would have been local leaders in their communities and derive their authority from their,

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from their wealth, but also through their moral authority and their charitable aid to their community. So it was an expectation of local leaders that they would,

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for example, feed the poor in their neighbor, even members of their own clan or their neighbors. They would

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maintain bridges, or you mentioned they did have a pontoon bridge, they would maintain temples, they would construct the irrigation works, they would support local burial societies, and those activities were considered necessary duties of their station.

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Okay, archaeologically,

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there, like I said, there are 21 tombs. Most of them contain a single male and one or two females, the wives. And so there's a grave with three. So the center burial was a male, and then two women on either side.

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All of the tombs have six features six architectural features and conduct this is a very cool 3d scan that the excavation team made, and an elevation drawing of the Menlo in that in that tomb. So there are six features of all of the tombs, there's first of all, a tomb entrance, so either a shaft or as in this case, a stepped ramp, going down to the entrance, then there's an ante chamber, then there's a decorative gateway, or a Menlo, then there's a doorway and then there's a burial chamber, sometimes multiple burial chambers. Sometimes the burial chambers were a vaulted brick structure, sometimes it was just an earthen chamber, and then often also,

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side niches for holding burials. It's

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the they also all contain wooden coffins, and some of those wooden coffins were inside stone sarcophagi. And they had lots of burial objects of different materials, there was silver and gold jewelry led and porcelain dishes. As we have here, we have a hairpin, we have earrings, and also points copper coins, which helped the dating of the of the tombs. And so there's a lot more detail on the excavation and the grave contents in these two published reports by the team from the timesheet calendar yesterday.

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Okay, and now in terms of the osteo biographies, and how they relate to the epitaphs. These are the four graves that contained epitaphs. And then Middle East West, those designate different individuals within the tombs. These are the names that we have recorded from the epitaphs birth and death dates age at death, this is in western reckoning. This is the final burial date, and then we can see the gap between their death in their final burial was was sometimes pretty short and sometimes really long. So this would have happened if, for example, the wife died. First, she would have been put in a temporary grave, and then when the husband died, he would be moved to the same tomb and that was the final entombment state.

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This is the family tree of the Johns that was able to construct from the epitaphs.

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You can't read it from where you are, I'm happy to share it with anyone who wants to see the detailed version but but just from the four graves that had inscriptions, we've been able to reconstruct this entire family tree.

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I'm only going to talk about one of the graves today just in the interest of time. But we've written this up into a paper that's under review right now. So I'm hoping it will be out this year, so you'll be able to see a little bit more detail.

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We have actually only this what what these asterisks mean is these three we have both skeletons and epitaphs. This tomb contained epitaphs, but the skeletons were in particularly nice sarcophagi that were transported to a different field station for lab excavation. So I was not able to examine the skeletons from from this tomb. But today I'm going to talk just about tomb 53

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which is the oldest of the of the three for which we have both skeletons and epitaphs.

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So first, we have John Ray, who is the male occupant of the tomb. We have his first wife, Madam Sure. Sure, sure, sure. The second shirt is a title that I'm translating as Madame. So sure would say shirt would have been her maiden name essentially. So it madam Sure. And then we have the second wife battle along

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and I'm going to talk mainly about John Wright and Mattawan today.

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So John Gray, according to that

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epitaph married three times, man, I'm sure men have long and then a man of John, who was not buried with Him. We don't know why they were to his first two wives were buried with them. He had three sons. The first two of which John Raul and John this year were buried with buried in the same cemetery, and we have their epitaphs as well. And then he had a third son, who was not found in the cemetery. He had three daughters from his first wife, and then three daughters and three sons from the Second Life.

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And he is described as being both a businessman and a scholar. So he's described as having a very scholarly bent, he emphasized education for his children. He read books on divination and law. Even though he worked in trading, the community came to him for Judgment, when they had portals, they even asked him to rule on pieces of murder. We don't know if all these details are literally true. The epitaphs are very stylized genre. So there may have been anecdotes that were embellished or or described in a certain way to

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emphasize his Confucian virtues. So we don't know if all of these anecdotes are literally true, but described that he was a leader in his community to the extent that you ruled on even cases of murder. He had very Confucian values, he treated his parents and his brothers. Well, he worked and moved epitaph specifically mentioned that he worked hard in the fields. So again, this comes back to the family status as common or landlords, right? They were wealthy, they owned land, but they did conduct some of their own farm labor.

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There are anecdotes such as there was a man in the community named Young Joe shear who was a learned man in his 30s, who was too poor to marry. So John Ray was had so much force foresight that he married his fifth daughter to this young scholar, and then later the scholar passed the provincial examination and achieved the official rank of Turin, which would have been given him a lot of status. And so everyone praised John Ray for his his vision and supporting this, this young, poor scholar. He apparently worked in the timber trade. So there's a story about him going to Gansu Province wants to get timber and there were some looters who had stolen timber and they were floating it down the river. And when they heard that job, Ray was coming, they fled, right. So, again, we don't know how much of this is literally true, but it's likely that he did work in timber trade. And then the epitaph mentions in the 1480s that the Guangdong area was struck by a famine so severe that people engaged in cannibalism. And the Jones family provided famine relief for which John Ray traveled 1000 Leave meaning several 100 miles with two donkeys carrying grains and food. So his elders did not go hungry. So that's an example of not only community aid, but also him having close contact with draft animals, which will be coming forward later, was apparently 80 years old with die. And then his some his second son jumped ship went away to a place where there was a famous Confucian scholar named barley and stayed there for three months in the bitter winter, begging him to compose the epitaph for his father. And so this is an example of great filial piety that he wanted a prestigious scholar to write the epitaph for his for his father.

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Okay, in terms of, I'm going to start showing images of skeletal remains now. So in terms of genres skeleton, he was quite

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his skeleton makes it clear that he was quite advanced in age when he passed away, he was mostly essentialist, meaning that he had almost no teeth left. This is his maxilla. So we're looking up at the roof of his mouth, there were all but two of his maxillary teeth had fallen out and he had a handful of teeth in his mandible.

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He had five ribs on one side that were this is, this is his left side. So there are five ribs that were broken and healed. Clearly, this is one injury that he survived. He's not the only one. So I'm going to return to that later.

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He had pretty severe arthritis in his spine. These are three of his cervical vertebrae. And there's a lot of degeneration in on the surface of the vertebral bodies and then also on the joints between the vertebrae. But he didn't have arthritis elsewhere in his body just in his spine. So that makes it likely that he wasn't doing hard labor for his whole life. He having degeneration in your spine is very common for someone who's 80 years old, but he was not a lifelong laborer.

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He also this is the distal left tibia fibula joint. So this is his left ankle essentially, and we have these bony excrescences So these extra bone forming, but there shouldn't be this wiggly bone between these two, these two joint surfaces and

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So, this may or may not have affected his walking it could have caused him some discomfort when he was walking, but

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I'm going to come back to this later, it seems to be an example of osteochondroma, which is a benign bone tumor that arises from cartilage. And again, I'll come back to that in a little bit. He had what's called periodontitis. So inflammation of the soft tissue around the bones on the, in this case, the tibia. So this strided bone was active periodontitis, meaning that he was undergoing some kind of a systemic stress at the time of his death. We can't tell exactly what that was, but some kind of inflammation or infectious disease. So he basically he was sick at the time of his death.

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We don't know what it could have been but but that's clear from the act of periodontitis.

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His first wife, Matt, I'm sure there was not that much information on her in the epitaphs, probably because she died relatively young. And she only bought him daughters, so none of her. She didn't. She didn't bear any science so that she didn't really contribute to the family lineage. So she was she had a relatively short epitaph.

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I'm going to talk more about the second wife, Manik long who lived quite a bit longer. She had three sons and three sons and three daughters. She's also described as being very pious, very respectful, quiet, righteous, she didn't associate with lazy people. She assisted John Ray in educating their children to the great strict with the children, and she was very committed to principles of filial piety at duty. So there's some interesting anecdotes about that. It says that once her nephew was being abused by his grandmother and tried to run away from home, but Matt and Wong talked to him about ethics and morals and his duty to his family, and he came to realize that you should return home and be a dutiful grandson.

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And then in another anecdote, she had a different nephew, whose wife was being scolded by her husband to the point where she considered taking her own life. Matt and Wong explained to her the rules and principles that a woman should follow the voodoo doll. And then the woman was relieved and from then on, she told others about that episode and followed the food out. So again, these are very idealized anecdotes, but they are meant to illustrate that Madame Huang was a very pious Asian woman.

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She had a yet another nephew, who she actually helped to marry because she convinced her husband John Ray to save up money to pay for that nephew's wedding. She paid for relatives who were sick, to be fed, and she was good to people who worked for her. So again, the epitaph goes on about her virtues.

32:42

One interesting anecdote, it says that she one time caught a cold and the illness became chronic and reoccurred every fall and winter when the weather was cold. And even when she was sick, she would not stop leaving and her husband's venture to stop working, but she wouldn't. And she insisted on making her handicrafts. So that's that's not only example of her being hard working, but it's also an example of her doing handicrafts herself. So that's another example of

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how the job family fits into the commoner landlord category, right? So they thought about the men would do some farm work, the women would do handiwork. She was 60 when she died 14 years before her husband.

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This recurring illness is a bit of a mystery.

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There's no lesions of any kind on her skeleton that would help us diagnose but that could have been, tuberculosis does actually have a can have a seasonal presentation. But there was no evidence on her skeleton that she had TB. That doesn't mean she doesn't but there's no way to diagnose it from the skeleton.

33:44

She did also have that new bone periosteal new bone on her tibias but it was healing. So it means that she was not actively sick at the time of her death, but had been recently

33:56

of in terms of her skeleton, she was also mostly edentulous so she was 60 when she died not at that she had lost most of her teeth. So you can see her mandible here, there's no teeth left that those were all lost before her death. And then on her mat on her maxilla sorry, on her mandible. She had only her anterior teeth. All of the molars had fallen out before her death.

34:19

She also had had a broken nose at some point, this is a healed fracture of the nasal bones could have been an accident. There's many different does not necessarily violence, there's lots of accidentals causes for nasal fractures. And she also had these one of her remaining anterior teeth. I'm not sure if you can see it from back there. There's two groups in the dental enamel. This is called linear enamel hypoplasia. This is basically when you're a child and your teeth are forming. If something happens that stresses your body, it interrupts the growth of the teeth and then you end up with these permanent lines in the teeth for the rest of your life.

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because that could be caused by starvation, parasitic infection, infectious disease, there's no way to diagnose exactly what caused them. But she went through some kind of illness, at least twice in her childhood.

35:12

She had pretty severe osteoarthritis as well, in most of her major joints, her knees, her arms or hands, not her hips, which is surprising, I think.

35:24

This is her. This is the distal femur. This is her knees, very intense degeneration. This is her knuckles here. So this is all this extra bone is evidence of osteoarthritis. Her these are her humor, I have her upper arm bones, and she had very pronounced muscle attachments here. This is called the deltoid tuberosity is where your shoulder muscle attaches to your arm bone. And so could mean that she did a lot of she used her deltoid muscles a lot, right? So leaving, I don't know, this one muscle attachment is not enough to diagnose or determine exactly what movement someone was doing. But it would be consistent with doing activity that used to be on her body.

36:10

She had also what appears to be this is her spine, this is her lumbar, and the beginning of her thoracic spine, she had a condition called dish diffuse idiopathic skeletal Hyperostosis, which causes your vertebrae to fuse. Among other things.

36:27

The cause of dish is still not entirely clear, it's thought to be maybe associated with a rich diet, although it also has genetic causes.

36:37

This fusion in the vertebrae is very, very classic of dish. And it's also possible that, that that all of this extra, like this is pretty intense extra bone formation even for advanced osteoarthritis. So some of this could be related to the dish.

36:54

And then

36:55

this I find very strange, she had a chronically dislocated shoulder, actually, so she had her right shoulder was dislocated so that the head of the humerus was anteriorly displaced. This is the right humerus. And here on the shoulder blades, the scapula, the left you can see this is the joint surface, the glenoid fossa where the humerus head sits and it's normal. On this side, the humerus head was not sitting where it was supposed to it was, it was pushed forward out of the joint socket and was resting on the front side of the scapula. And so there's all this new bone that formed called a pseudo joint. So basically, the bone was trying to stabilize itself at the head of the humerus itself was was eroded away by friction with with the pseudo joints. So this would have been very painful, it would have had to go on for quite a while to get to this point. I'm not sure why it wasn't reduced, you know, fixed, could be that it was a repeat injury that became you know, maybe the ligaments became so loose that it wasn't possible to fix. It's, it's not clear. Also, when when you fit the humerus and the scapula together, they would have been abducted. So at an angle like this, this is clearly they fit together like this, and her shoulder would have been at an angle, so that would have seriously impacted her, the movement of her arm and her ability to do things like weave or do handicrafts.

38:26

So it's interesting to me that the respiratory illness was mentioned in the epitaph but not not an injury like this.

38:35

I'm going to briefly talked about the cemetery population more broadly. So I constructed these osteo biographies for the specific individuals that we have epitaphs for that was only those three graves, there were 21 individuals whose skeletons were present. So I was also able to do an analysis more at a population level.

38:58

One striking phenomenon is that about half of the women with preserved foot bones in the cemetery had bound feet. These this has already been published a few years ago, if you're interested in reading more details.

39:15

These are the metatarsal heads. So the bones in the top of the foot of a woman who had what looked to be normal metatarsal is, and then these are the same from a different woman whose feet were bound. And so you can see they're much they're shorter, the shafts are much more narrow. They're clearly altered. None of the for women with the feet that were obviously affected, had epitaphs right, so we can't actually date them specifically. But we can still surmise some things about their lives. Here we have another example of a metal parcel from a on affected foot and a an a bound foot. This is the surface of the calcaneus. So part of the ankle of an unbound and a bound foot

40:00

And then these are the cuboids, which are tarsal bones again from the ankle of unbound and about foot. So you can see the size, the size difference.

40:10

They, there was some effect on their lead bones, right, so they're the leg bones of the women whose feet are bound or smaller.

40:20

So that could mean during growth that they didn't walk as much that would have affected the robust density of their leg bones.

40:29

Their foot bones are obviously different. But there is a very small sample size, but there wasn't any evidence of earlier death or things like fractures. So there wasn't evidence that the women who had found seeds, for example, fell more often in their old age or suffered other injuries. So there was no evidence basically, that the bound feet affected their lifespan or their their health more generally.

40:56

We also don't know why only half the women had bad feet. This was still relatively early in the period when rebinding was spreading and becoming more popular. And so it's possible that not every woman had her feet bound at that point. It's also possible that the women whose feet were unbound are from the earlier part of the cemetery, and the four whose feet were bound for from the later part of the cemetery. Again, we can't date them because there were no inscriptions in those grapes.

41:24

So this is a very small sample size, there have actually been about half a dozen other papers now published by scholars in China, one other in the US, but mostly in China, on foot binding primarily from Ching Dynasty cemeteries with much larger sample sizes and CT scans and all kinds of interesting things. So if you're interested, I suggest looking into that literature.

41:46

We also have the rib fracture. So I'm coming back to I described how John Ray has for healed five healed rib fractures in a row. There were three other males who also had fractured ribs. We have M 59. So this person, we don't know his name, but he had his fourth rib was fractured. And this is the sternum. So this is the breastbone. And this is the fourth rib, which was broken in two places. So there's three pieces of rib here, which healed at a very strange angle and fused to the sternum. We also have John Ray, we have John Rao, who is his first son, so he has to

42:27

go away to two broken ribs. Right here is a fracture that healed here's a fracture that healed over but never reconnected. Right. So there's a piece that was missing here. And then his second son, John shear also had four broken and healed ribs in a row.

42:46

rib fractures, obviously result from blunt trauma to the thorax, there's no record of specifically of warfare, violence, military service, anything like that, in this time, in this area. And in modern populations, most rib fractures are caused. Besides car crashes, which is not a possibility for this group, is caused by animals kicking.

43:09

I first I thought maybe horseback riding falling off of horses, that actually typically causes upper extremity injuries, or head injuries because you add like this being rib fractures are often caused among stable workers, so not people who ride animals, but people who work with animals. So again, this injury pattern is consistent with men handling large animals. We have a mention of John Ray, taking the donkeys to bring food to his relatives during the famine. And we know that that draft animals in Ming Dynasty North China were mostly used by larger landowners.

43:48

And so we have both individual and population level historical records that suggests that these were men who would have had close contact with draft animals.

44:01

Okay, now back to the ankles. So we have John Ray had this extra bone in his ankle. And then there were actually two other individuals who had exactly the same thing extra bone formation in the tibia fibula joint. So the joint where the two lower leg bones meet at the ankle.

44:17

It's based on my differential diagnosis, I think they are osteochondromas, which again, is a benign tumor that arises from the cartilage. There's sometimes subclinical, meaning the person who had it wouldn't have known so like this one, for example, it's just a little bit of extra bone formation. It's not fused to bonds aren't fused, so this person may not even have known that he had it.

44:39

And then this individual, this is John shear, the second son of John Ray and he had this enlarged mandibular condyle. So this is the the joint where your jaw hinges with your skull. This side on the left was really enlarged and again, based on my reading of the literature and a differential diagnosis, I think this is also an option

45:00

Yo Khan drove up

45:02

neoplasms. So new bone formation in the temporomandibular joint is pretty rare. But osteochondromas are one of the things that can present that way.

45:14

So we have basically four, if I'm correct that these are osteochondromas, we have four examples of bone tumors out of only 23 individuals, which is a really high incidence.

45:28

And it's all in the males, and they're all relate the males are all related, right? There is actually such a thing as hereditary multiple osteochondroma. There's a hereditary form of osteochondroma.

45:40

There are some features of these individuals that fit that other features don't fit that diagnosis. For example, people with HMO usually have multiple osteochondromas in their body, but they only each had one in their ankle. So you would also need to do an x ray to definitively diagnose that says osteochondroma, so I'm not totally sure. But tentatively, I think this might be an example of a hereditary benign tumor.

46:08

There's, there's other information I don't have time to go into today on oral health and

46:14

the demographics of the cemetery. So I'm gonna leave that two questions, or one of the paper comes out, read about it. So just to wrap up and go back to those three productive tensions that I talked about, at the beginning of the talk, we have sometimes quite striking disconnects between these skeletons and the texts. For example, going back to Madame wall, the text mentioned, the epitaph mentions this recurring respiratory illness, but there's no evidence in her skeleton of, of lesions on her on her ribs or anything. She also had this very dramatic shoulder injury, which would have also made it difficult to keep doing her weaving though her sons would beg her to rescue. And that's not mentioned in the epitaphs. So

47:01

we have rib fractures, we have a facial tumor, we have evidence, the lines in the teeth evidence of childhood illnesses. Those are pretty striking bio archeological findings, none of which are described in the epitaphs. So

47:16

to the people who compose the epitaphs, those would have been to the individuals they would have been important events in their life, but they weren't important to include in the epitaphs. The only time that disease or health related conditions are recorded are when they're used to support a narrative of long suffer instance stoicism or to illustrate a colorful anecdote about the person's life. So from the historical record alone, all we can know are generalities, all we can know are what might have been typical for a specific gender or class. But the skeleton record can often undermine those assumptions. So for example, from the from the textual primary sources, we know that men and women had very different roles in their families and society. So we wouldn't be might expect that they would have had different distributions of osteoarthritis in their body from different daily activities or different oral health if they were eating different diets. In fact, they didn't find any sex differences in the distribution of arthritis, I didn't find any sex differences in oral health. So they, it actually seems that their daily activities in their diet were not different enough to cause skeletal differences.

48:28

We also because they were wealthy, they were landowners. They provided famine relief,

48:35

that

48:37

are going to come to that on the next slide, actually, you might assume that because they were wealthy, and they were landowners that when the epitaphs describe the men did farm labor, the women did handicrafts, even when they were sick, that maybe those were idealized descriptions. But we have four men with fractured ribs, which I am concluding to the best of my ability were due to be, for example, kicked by donkeys we have

49:03

also, Madam shirt, who I didn't talk about the first wife of John Ray had kneeling facettes in her feet, which meant that she spent a good amount of time kneeling with her toes bent under, again, perhaps doing handicrafts. And so and we have the pronounced muscle attachments of Madame Huang. So that's actually evidence that even though these were relatively wealthy people, they were working in the fields they were doing his crafts.

49:30

Okay, so and then individuals versus populations.

49:34

We know from the broader historical record some trends that held in being dynasty we're aware of China. We know that, for example, the John family were leaders of their community. They were feeding their poor neighbors, they were providing famine relief.

49:52

They worked in trade, they had lumber business, they had agricultural land, they may have had it come from the pontoon bridge

50:01

And they lived through a litany of famines, floods, epidemics, droughts including the Great Famine of the 1480s.

50:11

So we can see there's sort of a contradiction there. They were wealthy and, and high status in their local community, but they also lived through a very difficult time. And so we can see in the record of individual people skeletons, how those larger forces less than mark on people's bodies, so though they were able to provide famine relief, they actually seem to have had a lot of hardship in their own lives, those linear enamel hypoplasia is the lines in the teeth that I showed about half of the individuals in the cemetery had LDH, which means that about half of them experienced severe illness or starvation or parasitic infection. We don't know exactly what but some kind of physical hardship in their childhood. So it seems that despite their status, that allowed them to be able to feed their neighbors, it couldn't completely buffer them from the effects of, of the famines and the floods and the time in which they lived. And it's also possible that the family's fortunes may have fluctuated through time.

51:13

And then finally, the public versus the private the Jiang family were not known to modern people before their tombs were discovered and excavated. So the therapy burials and the details of their lives were consigned to an anonymous and private past. However, the epitaphs were intended to the public, right, they were the stone epitaphs are buried in the grave, but then many epitaphs would have been published as collections of work by the scholars who proposed them. So they were meant to be passed down through the generations to edify people to raise the standing of the family. So they were both public and private,

51:51

the

51:54

the burial of the body itself, the funeral procession, all of those activities around the death, but also public in their time.

52:03

So that epitaph and the skeleton are both recording a person's private self and their public self, their, their social body, right in the bio archaeology, we have a term social body, which is your, the body as it interacts with the rest of society, essentially. So we have the skeleton, recording very private things, the intimate details of healed illnesses and injuries, and also very public things like the performance of gender, class and ethnicity through things like foot binding, and then the epitaphs also record public DNS, such as charity and dispensing advice and mediating disputes and also private emotions, we have recorded people's mourning their at their father's death, despair at suffering, the family members abuse, pride, the success in their children, those are all private, private things, private emotions that are recorded the epitaphs as well. So the line between public and private is not really clear in the case of, of osteo biographies of named historical individuals such as the John family.

53:09

So our findings in this study and the tensions I just discussed, I believe, have broader significance both for Chinese studies and for historical bio archaeology. Micro historians and ostial. biographers have written already about how the study of individuals and the study of populations enrich each other they form a dialectic.

53:29

And so by forming that dialectic, we can arrive at a more complex and nuanced interpretation of both of both our population level studies and our individuals. The lives of the John family in the main period show us how social stratification economic trends and national catastrophes have manifested in the lives of individual people. So we argue that both historical record and the skeleton record as others have have eloquently written many times contain not only historical information, but also historic graphic information, information on how those records were created. And this small scale approach that we have taken is, is rich in detail. But in the absence of a broader context and comparable studies, it can only go so far. So I hope that this work will be continued by other scholars, and myself if the opportunity presents it to expand this kind of detail to my current historic work to other sites in China, other times and places. And we can build a sort of tapestry of micro historical studies, and then use that to construct an understanding of the differences across time and space in individual people's lives at a very fine grain and how the larger events of history were either buffered or exacerbated in the lives of individual people.

55:00

Truly eye opening now

55:23

with the rib fractures are you able to tell if there were multiple fractures over time? Or are you not able to tell because I believe they were at the same event because they lineups this was this I'm not sure this was only one broken rib.

55:40

But then these individuals even though they have multiple fractures, they line up very well there. It's always on the same side on contiguous ribs. And it's like clearly one line. So I believe this was a single event of being potentially kicked or falling. It could have been fall it could it could have been other classes. One is enough to teach about.

56:03

Exactly, yes.

56:09

This one is particularly

56:15

so for those of you who aren't osteologist, this is the sternum and then this should be just one one line one rib but it's been broken in two places so there's three pieces that then healed kind of like this must have

56:29

would have hurt hopefully once it healed it didn't hurt but yes, it would have hurt when it happened

56:37

so no descendants of this lineage shot that we know of no no no one in the local area has said that there is no one no one at least that we know of knew that the cemetery was there. The cemetery was unmarked hasn't been lost. I don't believe there's a Jiang clan. So

56:58

the locals tell you

57:02

where their genealogy came from. They are I believe she said that some of them came from North not not so some of the people in that area seem to have come turn that area and during the Qing Dynasty I believe she said yeah, was somewhere in that system.

57:22

Okay, sorry there was fear monger

57:27

the oral history is a whole area that that we haven't yet explored but would be very valuable. Yeah.

57:34

This area suffered massacres in the 19th century I was wondering about the rapture

57:42

the before and so it's

57:45

possible

57:48

Yeah.

57:50

The the most simple Yeah, yeah.

57:57

So could have led to pot the population being replaced by a different different Yeah, I was just curious of the extent of these

58:08

these rights Yeah. So far it is so patient that was it first chunk off without even 30 So this surgery Yeah. Shamala area

58:22

I saw these fortresses that's associated with widespread violence in the 19th century. Yeah.

58:31

That's true

58:38

How long do they take the ribs to heal from

58:42

they could heal pretty quickly actually ribs the turnover of bone in the ribs is relatively fast. So in a few months, it would have been it would have been pretty well healed.

58:52

So these could have happened many years before the person's death but

58:56

it

58:58

could have been it could have been less than a year but just given how much in this particular case it's not just that they've healed there's like all this extra bone has filled in so this was probably multiple years of healing

59:15

and as I said, this one this is not the entire rip this is a healed broken end but there should have been another part of the rib here so the person would have had a little floating piece of rib and they're

59:30

kind of say that they took again, now I know the whole spectrum

59:39

Yes, it's a little while the era Right? Right. That's one maze came in. Sweet potato.

59:49

That's true. That should be

59:52

when those have any

59:55

marks. So you So okay, so mazes?

1:00:00

See for plants so you if they were eating a lot of millet before maize was introduced, you would not necessarily be able to see Oh, I see. But, but a paleo f no botanist could find maize or potato starch grades and

1:00:15

find evidence for for that.

1:00:21

You could even do studies of the dental calculus. So if you take the dental, the calcified plaque off the teeth, you can find remains of food that they were eating on a microscopic level. So no one's done that yet. But these people

1:00:38

so it starts early in the LEAP period.

1:00:43

1530 likes yogic training

1:00:48

close to them and Mila Galleon

1:00:52

in 1673.

1:01:00

I'm sure it didn't affect this area that quick.

1:01:06

The last time was very strange. By

1:01:10

the time

1:01:13

the time between that very sort of stretch. So this doesn't necessarily mean this. Yes, normally a male member died and he will be buried soon. Yeah, so the burial doesn't necessarily mean that he wasn't buried, it may mean that the tomb was sealed after she died. So it could be that he was buried, and then the tomb was left the stone because it's the same

1:01:38

fate their, their burial date is the same. So probably, he died and was buried. And

1:01:46

then either he was buried at a temporary grave because he died younger. And then his tomb was constructed and he was moved, or he may have been buried in the tomb. But then she was added later, and then they sealed it and that's the date that is considered the final burial date.

1:02:04

That's my I'm not a historian. That's my understanding of how the burial traditions work. But if anyone has a different interpretation, please

1:02:16

John Shea was probably buried at the same time as his wife, but there's no there's no burial date and juncture is really interesting. And I'm sorry, I didn't have time to talk about him. He's the second son of John Ray. He's he did have a scholarly career. He went to the Confucian Academy in Beijing. And he, when he was like, in his 70s, he became a provincial level administrator and

1:02:40

his, his older brother, John rau had no sons. And so Jiang Shia gave his first son to be adopted by John route to become his heir, which is not uncommon practice. And then later, John Brown managed to have a child and so the son went back to Joshua. But

1:03:00

there's a lot of interesting detail in the in the epitaphs that I ended up trying to get.

1:03:11

Once I was walking by the dog trainers bookstore in opera, I saw this rubbing elbow

1:03:19

of this extract of the hometown was was in the window.

1:03:26

And that moment, before that moment, I didn't know that people actually produced these things. Before it was put in a tomb. And then the concrete the rubbings in the genealogy book

1:03:39

is brought to

1:03:42

you by dog, and there's like real way electricity, no permanent electricity, like we always industries and in medicine, that the Europeans call him the Eastern Bismarck. Yeah, in that, which really surprised me. And my understanding is that it was very, so the fact that not all the tombs have epigraphs could mean that they, they were wealthy, but they weren't that wealthy, right. They had they took multiple wives, but serially instead of concurrently, and they didn't all have epitaphs. And so my understanding is that it was pretty expensive because you had to hire someone to compose it. You had to hire a calligrapher to do the calligraphy, you had to hire a stonemason to carve the stone and then you had to hire someone to do the engraving. So it was a big production, and those would be named

1:04:31

jobs.

1:04:35

Very interesting work between text and archeology, of course, that's expensive to logically extremely rich.

1:04:44

You can actually test some of the text. The only oral history we have is very informal, just from us conversations with people but that's that's a whole other area you could explore. Absolutely. And she so some of her looking into the gadgets here

1:05:00

She believes that some of the villages in this area may have been founded as military Garrison's or settlements of military families because the term Jai in the local nomenclature means

1:05:13

a fortress or a fortified place, and so young lungi might have originally been a fortification, and there's a there's another settlement with that

1:05:24

with that character, but then and then also, some of the villages aren't recorded in the Gaza tear. And so she believes that they are recorded as student who so military families who wouldn't have paid taxes. And so they're not really recorded in the guest chair, because again, tear was often for tax purposes. So there might have been some history of military service in the area, but there's no not a single mention of military service at all. It needs epitaphs.

1:05:54

Question besides menopause, whether other examples were epitaphs recorded cases of pathology that were described or?

1:06:04

Not really no, very, very, very few.

1:06:07

Sometimes it would say like, once when she became there was one that I don't remember which one it was, but one of them said, when he became sick, you know, his there. One of them's his brother had been away in the south doing business for many years, and they hadn't spoken and when he became sick, a coffin arrived but his brother had sent it so he you know, he knew his brother was sick even though they hadn't spoken in a long time. So there's mentions of being sick but not not details like the respiratory illness

1:06:37

not that I can not that I can think of

1:06:41

and none of that so there's also no children in the cemetery this is all adults.

1:06:47

I don't know what the funerary treatment of children would have been in fact that old there's only of John raise children's youngest daughter died young.

1:06:58

It's mentioned but that's the only mention of childhood mortality in the chest so I'm really I'm not actually sure that they would have had many children who died but if they did they were not buried with the full treatment.

1:07:13

The calligraphy of the RK conscription is pretty horrible.

1:07:19

The inscription seems competent and competent.

1:07:22

The commander of whichever locus conducted this

1:07:29

did this

1:07:31

cover star of

1:07:35

historical writing systems was skin D.

1:07:40

That's a whole other interesting angle. Yes, write about the calligraphy. Now, of course, these never get into the into the Compendia where people

1:07:52

collect the success for examples of this kind of shawl but

1:07:59

this is from the pup This is from the one of the to publish reports

1:08:07

but yeah, in the paper that we wrote, it's only it's only summaries of that's not the full text so

1:08:14

and I even removed the fourth tomb that I only had the inscription for a no skeleton I removed that one because the reviewers thought it was unnecessary. So that's not even published yet. So there's just so much more to do

1:08:29

potential work by

1:08:32

by a historic story

1:08:36

and of course, local history at that level is often neglected.

1:08:44

How this would fit in the first few days also to get into you know, local historical processes.

1:08:57

There was also I think, a terrible aspect during this part of the main period, some during the 16th century.

1:09:05

So that also could could have in this area that could have also

1:09:12

contributed to not

1:09:26

shoot

1:09:29

because apparently, the shoot was a different tool.

1:09:34

So whoever wrote the map could use that dude for

1:09:39

us today.

1:09:50

But on the other hand,

1:09:52

to have local typography, represented represented at this level of detail

1:10:00

In the 16th century is not that bad.

1:10:16

So if this is what they look

1:10:19

like, of course, the artist story talks about visual form and beauty ideas, yes, they don't have

1:10:31

these fancy

1:10:34

material to

1:10:36

the women.

1:10:43

And the binding was less extreme than in the Ching Dynasty suit.

1:10:49

So,

1:10:51

this is this indicates, right, some of them have been Muslims. Is that something? Wouldn't that have been mentioned in that, but that's no.

1:11:02

I mean, so so. So one, it could be that some of the families did it and some didn't, it could have been that there was a temporal difference, because this cemetery spans multiple decades. So the later women have them in the earlier don't

1:11:17

know, we don't know, because the four women with the bound feet don't have epitaphs. So we don't know the exact there, we don't know their dates.

1:11:24

Only four of the 21 tombs have dates.

1:11:29

To be that those cases, they were in different set of circumstances where they could be expected to contribute more sort of daily chores and tasks that they couldn't really compromise themselves in that way. So So my understanding is that at this point in the history of foot binding, it was

1:11:47

not as universal as it was later, say, in the 18th and 19th centuries. So by the end of practice, even women on in relatively poor families who were doing farm work still had their

1:12:00

in parts in parts of China. And so it's this time, I think it's plausible that not all the families would have done it, that it just maybe not, it wouldn't have been a universal practice, but or maybe some of the families that the women came from were higher status than others.

1:12:18

Not sure. It's pretty interesting to tell. And I was very privileged in the timing of this talk, because we just had a core seminar yesterday where we were discussing ideas of like for coding and bodily inscription layers by Deputy Aaron Hill, and skills community being discussed in from an anthropological framework and how, you know, at its basis, the community really is a set of overlapping individual agencies, but each that cannot be defined by an indefinite sort of agency other is malleability, but only to the extent where there are a sort of boundaries and set behaviors that are expected. And so this is very interesting also, in the scale that it presents like this is, you can see it as, you know, in the framework of, you know, what is meaning traditions in the study of what is perhaps communal behavior? Is that is that and also familial? So, it's very interesting at the same much information. And you have the agency of the people compose the epitaph to, because as it funerary archaeology, we talked about a decorative rave is constructed by the living people, not by the dead. So

1:13:23

the composition of the epitaph reflects the wishes of family, right?

1:13:29

If you don't know how much of them are literally true,

1:13:32

and the skills of those involved in producing.

1:13:38

Yeah,

1:13:39

I talked a little bit more in the paper about the difference between the in this distinction and snap, not mine, but the individual body itself, the social body and the body politic. So your body reflects your individual life. It reflects your social relations, and it reflects your place in the political structure. So as this come out, yeah, it's under review, by historical archaeology.

1:14:03

Sitting there for a while. You've already got reviewers comments, and you've done something about it. It's

1:14:11

just something to look for witnesses. This is the kind of work off it's much too little.

1:14:18

I have a period of which, you know, the potential of archaeology as

1:14:24

just a bio archaeology too. So the foot binding paper that we published in 2019.

1:14:31

came out, I believe, the same year as one or two other papers from shondell.

1:14:37

Shandong University and now there's been

1:14:41

maybe a dozen if that papers on foot binding, but they've all come out in the last

1:14:47

five years.

1:14:50

And there was literally nothing published on the bioarchaeology of foot binding until

1:14:56

four or five, four years ago, I guess. And now there's now there's a

1:15:00

dozen papers on it, we have comparative beginnings of a comparative corpus.

1:15:07

And there's so much that's not known about the practice of foot binding the specifics either what age it started at, in different times and places, how the technique differed from place to place or family to family. And those are things that could be reconstructed with more, more data.

1:15:24

The same for there, like you say, though, the one above is, yes. What is it different because for me, it sounds it looks like one is younger, maybe you understand what it's like. So so this is definitely fully adult, because the the privacy of the hands the bone are fused. And if you look at the base of the bone, this joint surface is, is pretty much its normal size. So like this. So these are we're looking at the metatarsal, the top of the foot bones, these five bones. And so these surfaces would have articulated here with the ankle bones potentials. So this surface is a little smaller, but not much than the then the surface on this bone. So the biggest differences in the shaft

1:16:09

length, the difference in length is pretty striking. And then the the whip is really different. So this is sort of a thick, sturdy bone, and this is very, very narrow.

1:16:20

So it's the one at the top, those are boundaries. Yes, and this is the this is the the innermost stripes at the thump of the big toe right behind the big toe. But this is the innermost and this is behind the pinky toe. And you can see the differences, the most extreme on the outer edge of the lips. And the difference on the first is much smaller, which is consistent with what we know about the technique because the usually the hallux the big toe was not found underneath it was left in its normal orientation. And the other four were folded under.

1:16:57

So did you also sorry, I went here like so were you in the exhibition site when they were? No, when they were excavated, I was there. They were excavated in 2014 15. And I looked at them in 2017 at Nike and I was wondering if when you except when you see the report or the picture? Feet, I already find it.

1:17:19

So there so when they were excavated it was all disarticulated. Yeah, they were not there was no cloth, or, or clothing of any kind, which would have been helpful, right? It would have been interesting. Yeah. And also interesting is that all of the skeletons had the small bones of their hands and feet, which means that if they were buried somewhere else and then move to the tomb, 20 years later, they would have been moved in their coffin. Bones weren't collected and moved because then they wouldn't have had all the little bone so they would have been moved in the whole coffin.

1:17:54

Food for some

1:17:59

physicians when it's not and we thank you very much once more. It's really fantastic materials and a very interesting analysis.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai