1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,319
to our event this evening my name is
2
00:00:02,639 --> 00:00:06,480
michael berry
3
00:00:04,319 --> 00:00:08,480
i'm a professor of chinese studies at
4
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,080
ucla and director of the center for
5
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:13,040
chinese studies
6
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,160
and it's my great pleasure to welcome
7
00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:16,640
everyone for tonight's
8
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:18,000
event i want to thank our sponsors which
9
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,600
is of course the center for chinese
10
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,400
studies but also we receive generous
11
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,320
support
12
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,240
from the taiwan ministry of culture and
13
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,160
the taiwan academy
14
00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:27,599
tonight's event will be completely
15
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,359
bilingual so
16
00:00:27,599 --> 00:00:31,439
you'll be i'll be repeating everything
17
00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:33,600
twice i will also be serving as an
18
00:00:31,439 --> 00:00:36,960
interpreter for mr thai
19
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:39,680
and it's such a pleasure and honor
20
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,719
to be able to host mr taiming leon one
21
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:45,600
of the great
22
00:00:40,719 --> 00:00:47,600
uh filmmakers and really
23
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,600
someone who has changed the face of what
24
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,039
cinematic art is over the course of the
25
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,360
last 30 years
26
00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:54,160
uh his films such as viva lamour the
27
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,559
river
28
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,440
uh goodbye dragon inn have won wide
29
00:00:56,559 --> 00:00:59,440
acclaim at
30
00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,640
numerous film festivals around the world
31
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,320
such as
32
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,799
the golden lion at the venice film
33
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,159
festival he has won the silver bear in
34
00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:08,240
berlin and he has
35
00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:09,760
been awarded best director by the golden
36
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,400
horse film festival i think
37
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,600
if you're in the room you know who mr
38
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,400
tsai is and so
39
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,400
thank you for coming
40
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,840
down
41
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,959
and i'm also going to be interpreter so
42
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,560
uh mr thais say it's been a long time
43
00:02:26,959 --> 00:02:30,640
since we've seen each other so it's also
44
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,040
a kind of reunion for the two of us so
45
00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:33,040
it's
46
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,120
i'm quite happy to have you here so the
47
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:38,160
first my first question i'm gonna get
48
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,160
right to it and
49
00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:42,319
right now we're in the middle of this
50
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,120
incredible pandemic that has changed the
51
00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:45,360
world
52
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,200
and in some ways it's also changed the
53
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,440
way i look at your films
54
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,120
it has brought a kind of allegorical
55
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,879
dimension to them that
56
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,480
i'm not sure if i ever felt so
57
00:02:52,879 --> 00:02:58,159
powerfully before
58
00:02:54,480 --> 00:03:00,159
things like we re remember in the hole
59
00:02:58,159 --> 00:03:01,840
and there's this drought and everybody's
60
00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:03,200
so thirsty for water and this year
61
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,120
there's actually a terrible drought
62
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,080
especially in taiwan
63
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,599
you think about in goodbye dragon in
64
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,840
this empty theater
65
00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:13,120
and in 2020 all the theaters around the
66
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,680
world were empty
67
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,400
um we think about the loneliness in your
68
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,200
films
69
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,280
and this is a year under the pandemic of
70
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,680
loneliness we're all isolated right now
71
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,080
we're
72
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,280
in this very strange kind of zoom-like
73
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,319
environment
74
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,599
and i'm wondering how has the pandemic
75
00:03:28,319 --> 00:03:32,400
changed your own
76
00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:35,040
perspective on your work the meaning of
77
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,040
your films
78
00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,840
is
79
00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:49,840
is
80
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,840
um
81
00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,879
so i don't really uh look i'm not the
82
00:08:19,199 --> 00:08:21,280
kind of person that looks back on my own
83
00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:23,840
work
84
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:26,319
or reflects on my own films i i rarely
85
00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,039
go back and watch my old films that i've
86
00:08:26,319 --> 00:08:28,479
made but
87
00:08:27,039 --> 00:08:30,160
during the last couple of years
88
00:08:28,479 --> 00:08:32,000
something has happened that
89
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,200
has changed my perspective on a lot of
90
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,519
things and that's i've
91
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,320
started to have some health issues and
92
00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:38,159
for a while
93
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,680
i would go to the doctor and i would do
94
00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:40,959
all kinds of checkups and they would do
95
00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:42,399
all kinds of tests but they couldn't
96
00:08:40,959 --> 00:08:44,240
figure out what was wrong
97
00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:46,640
and but for years i just felt something
98
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:49,040
was wrong with my my health and i just
99
00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,680
thought something was terribly wrong and
100
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,399
this
101
00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:53,519
went on for quite some time until i had
102
00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:55,600
a great revelation
103
00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:57,600
that what had really been happening was
104
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,880
more a psychological issue it was almost
105
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,920
a kind of paranoia
106
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,760
uh that i was suffering from where i was
107
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:06,320
uh and it was impacting my life it was
108
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,640
impacting my work and i became extremely
109
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,000
sensitive to my environment so there was
110
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,399
a period of time where
111
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,560
i would just hate to get on planes and
112
00:09:12,399 --> 00:09:16,160
have an aversion to traveling and being
113
00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:17,200
in these kind of claustrophobic
114
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,200
environments
115
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,880
and when i did get on a plane i would
116
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,360
have to read buddhist sutras to get
117
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,519
myself through that experience
118
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,440
because it was just so so terrifying and
119
00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:30,160
and i realized perhaps i had this
120
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,160
maybe many many years earlier but it
121
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,080
wasn't until i got older that it seemed
122
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,880
to get more serious and it really
123
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,560
impacted my perspective on the world my
124
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,880
interaction with this kind of urban
125
00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:44,160
environment that i'm living in
126
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:46,800
and it also impacts how
127
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,560
i interact with technology for instance
128
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,920
i still don't use a computer
129
00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:53,519
i um you know i rely on people around me
130
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,120
to help me set up the computer and get
131
00:09:53,519 --> 00:09:57,440
through all of these different things
132
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,160
but when i look around it feels like the
133
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,200
world
134
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:04,000
keeps turning and moving in an almost uh
135
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,399
and it's deteriorating in a certain way
136
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,320
and
137
00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:08,480
part of me feels like i just need to
138
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,279
protect myself so i hardly go out and in
139
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,200
some ways
140
00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:13,279
i'm quite similar to the protagonists in
141
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,519
my films
142
00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:16,880
i see people lined up at the apple store
143
00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:17,839
and i wonder what the hell they're doing
144
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,880
in there because i don't know what
145
00:10:17,839 --> 00:10:22,079
magical things they
146
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,920
have in the apple store um but in many
147
00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:25,440
ways i do feel this is bringing me to a
148
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:28,000
world very similar to what
149
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,880
my characters were doing in viva lamour
150
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,720
in the whole
151
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:37,600
and the days so i do see that uh
152
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,600
that um kind of connection
153
00:10:44,839 --> 00:10:47,839
okay
154
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,519
and so in some ways i feel like
155
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,680
increasingly so i don't know how to make
156
00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:09,279
films anymore
157
00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:10,160
um let me ask you about um the style of
158
00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:12,399
your film is
159
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,600
very unique it's kind of you've created
160
00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:17,040
a cinematic language
161
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,839
all of itself and i think for a lot of
162
00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,600
audiences
163
00:11:17,839 --> 00:11:21,600
that are used to hollywood films and
164
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,839
traditional narrative approaches
165
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,160
it's a real challenge for them to enter
166
00:11:23,839 --> 00:11:27,680
the world of a timingly on film
167
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,600
and i'm wondering what you what would
168
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:31,200
you what do you say to those audiences
169
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,880
who grew up watching hollywood films
170
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,720
their whole life and they walk into a
171
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,800
theater to see one of your films
172
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,640
what kind of psychological preparation
173
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:43,839
do you think they need to have and what
174
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,839
do you say to them
175
00:11:45,130 --> 00:11:48,240
[Music]
176
00:12:36,839 --> 00:12:39,839
children
177
00:12:50,839 --> 00:12:53,839
um
178
00:13:18,839 --> 00:13:21,839
um
179
00:13:46,839 --> 00:13:49,839
um
180
00:14:14,839 --> 00:14:17,839
um
181
00:15:10,839 --> 00:15:13,839
um
182
00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:14,800
so indeed often audiences the first time
183
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,759
they encounter my films they're quite
184
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:20,240
surprised or shocked and i think that's
185
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:22,720
because worldwide no matter where you go
186
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,839
people are extremely impacted by the
187
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,480
narrative style
188
00:16:23,839 --> 00:16:28,639
the genres uh action films the
189
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,279
commercial dominance of a hollywood
190
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:31,519
style
191
00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:32,800
of cinematic storytelling that's what
192
00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:35,199
people are used to
193
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,519
of course in the 1960s we had this
194
00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:40,000
explosion of global art cinema
195
00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:41,279
but that really was quite limited and
196
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,040
overall
197
00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:45,040
hollywood and traditional narratives
198
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,279
still very much dominated especially in
199
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,000
asia where the new wave didn't have
200
00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:50,639
as powerful an impact even in the 60s
201
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,440
during that
202
00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:55,199
era of experimentalism most films were
203
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,759
still dominated by drama
204
00:16:55,199 --> 00:16:58,560
tension acting screenplays highly
205
00:16:57,759 --> 00:17:01,839
scripted
206
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:04,559
stories and so uh that's
207
00:17:01,839 --> 00:17:07,039
always been the situation for me however
208
00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:08,079
my films try to carry on the tradition
209
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:10,720
of european
210
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:12,400
art cinema the new wave and i think that
211
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,039
i try to build on that
212
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,160
and push that forward and what my films
213
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:19,120
are doing
214
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,880
is capturing a texture of life and a
215
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:24,000
semblance of what people's lives
216
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,679
are really like this is really much
217
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,839
closer to
218
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:29,600
has an experimental edge and is much
219
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,240
closer to a personal expression of
220
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,120
cinema
221
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,360
as opposed to the industrial uh version
222
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:38,480
that you're seeing out of hollywood
223
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,720
and so often people will ask me
224
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,559
you know how what what tips are there
225
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,919
for someone to watch my films or
226
00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:45,919
understand them and
227
00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:47,440
and i think that it's often people with
228
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:49,840
rich
229
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,799
life experience and artistic experience
230
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,440
that tend to
231
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:54,000
uh gravitate towards my films more than
232
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,960
others
233
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,799
uh most audiences i have to be frank are
234
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,039
still going to go for the hollywood
235
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:01,840
typical hollywood kind of action film or
236
00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:04,160
the uh
237
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,039
traditional style narratives and i know
238
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,880
that that's
239
00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:08,480
it's just this is a type of film made
240
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,280
for a smaller audience
241
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,440
and it's very hard to break through it's
242
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,120
very hard to change the mind of people
243
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,559
and i often wonder what can i do to
244
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,320
change people's minds
245
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:19,840
and i do think there's limited tools but
246
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,559
i will share one thing that i've been
247
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,039
doing
248
00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:23,840
in taiwan that i think has made a change
249
00:18:23,039 --> 00:18:25,280
and that is
250
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,600
the last couple of years i started
251
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,480
taking my films and bringing them to art
252
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,520
museums
253
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,400
and exhibiting them in museums and by
254
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,120
doing that
255
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,280
i think it really creates a real shift
256
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:39,919
because people say oh wow you can
257
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,240
a movie can be looked at as pure art
258
00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:44,559
alongside these other objects of art
259
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,000
and it's a legitimate category of
260
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:47,919
artistic expression
261
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,440
right alongside painting and all the
262
00:18:47,919 --> 00:18:51,760
other forms of art
263
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,039
and so suddenly they start seeing film
264
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,960
from a more aesthetic
265
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:56,880
point of view and that's one thing that
266
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,720
i think has maybe changed
267
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,000
the way people respond to my films a
268
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,640
little bit but i think
269
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,160
when it comes down to it forever where
270
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,360
it's always going to be a limited
271
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,360
audience we're never going to break
272
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:09,039
through and hit mainstream audiences
273
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,799
there's a small group of people that
274
00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:11,840
appreciate these films and it tends to
275
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:14,799
be the people
276
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,440
that have a rich appreciation for art
277
00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:18,000
and
278
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,919
that's what i make my films for um i i
279
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,160
make films for people
280
00:19:19,919 --> 00:19:25,440
that it's kind of the anti-hollywood or
281
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,440
the the non-hollywood
282
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:05,919
another important aspect of this is that
283
00:21:03,679 --> 00:21:06,960
almost all filmmakers face the pressure
284
00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:10,320
of the market
285
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,919
of the box office of making money of uh
286
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,520
you know making sure their investors
287
00:21:11,919 --> 00:21:16,080
aren't disappointed but
288
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,679
for me at least the last decade or so
289
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,799
that's really not been
290
00:21:17,679 --> 00:21:22,320
an issue for me um i know that my
291
00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:25,360
market's very small
292
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,720
and so i can kind of let go of that and
293
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,799
so for the last 10 years
294
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,400
i've been able to do that and i can and
295
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:32,000
that means maybe i'm out of step with
296
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,480
the times i'm out of step without
297
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,480
without
298
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,240
other people are doing but i can let go
299
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,480
of the pressure of making money
300
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,240
of the box office let all of that go and
301
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,280
it means that i can move forward more
302
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,960
like a painter
303
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,559
just an individual doing what i want to
304
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,480
do making the kind of art making the
305
00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:49,039
kind of films i want to go
306
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,720
make and see and that makes me quite
307
00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:53,760
fulfilled and quite happy
308
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:59,840
and so it's in some ways a relief of
309
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:59,840
letting that burden of the box office go
310
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,440
another uh really unique facet of your
311
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,760
films is your
312
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,360
engagement with actors you could say if
313
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,440
if your
314
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:13,600
films represent a cinematic universe the
315
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,159
actors are the kings
316
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,200
and besides of course lee kang shanghai
317
00:22:16,159 --> 00:22:19,520
appears in almost
318
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,520
every one of your films you also have a
319
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,080
very solid group of actors that you've
320
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,480
worked with
321
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,720
and then appear and reappear li kang
322
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,720
shung
323
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,080
they always appear and reappear in all
324
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:35,440
of your films
325
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,520
and i'm wondering if maybe we could go
326
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,280
through some of the actors that you
327
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,640
keep going back to one by one you can
328
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,480
tell us a little bit about
329
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,120
what are the qualities that brings you
330
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,120
back to them
331
00:22:57,210 --> 00:23:00,269
[Music]
332
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,840
foreign
333
00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:37,840
to
334
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,840
um
335
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,840
um
336
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,840
um
337
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:10,399
so one thing about my films is that
338
00:29:08,399 --> 00:29:12,559
i'm usually dealing with a fairly
339
00:29:10,399 --> 00:29:13,679
contained subject matter in each film
340
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:17,279
that i make it's not
341
00:29:13,679 --> 00:29:19,760
a massive story and so i need a group
342
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:20,559
that i can really focus on and actors
343
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,320
where i can
344
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:26,159
really see them bringing their best and
345
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,000
there are times where i think it's not
346
00:29:26,159 --> 00:29:29,840
just me but a lot of other film
347
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,279
directors out there they have a group of
348
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,000
actors that they tend to gravitate
349
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:35,360
towards
350
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,440
and work with over and over again and
351
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,279
the benefit of making the films the kind
352
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,000
of films that i make that is small art
353
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:41,919
house style
354
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,520
films is that i don't have this market
355
00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:45,600
pressure i don't have the box office
356
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,799
pressure so i can use exactly the actors
357
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,720
i want to use
358
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:50,159
and so i don't have to have the stars or
359
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,520
the big names to be cast
360
00:29:50,159 --> 00:29:56,240
that means i can create my own kind of
361
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,640
network or group or family of actors and
362
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,760
so
363
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:02,159
over the last it's been 30 years now
364
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:05,279
since i first worked with the khan
365
00:30:02,159 --> 00:30:07,039
and i first met him on the streets
366
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:10,320
uh in ximending and there was just
367
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:12,640
something a physicality about him
368
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,480
that drew me in and it wasn't the fact
369
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,320
that it wasn't the tall and handsome
370
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,200
kind of leading man archetype that you
371
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,880
often see
372
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,480
in in the movies but it was there was
373
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,000
something that was just interesting
374
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,000
about his appearance that drew me
375
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,760
in and something familiar and i kept
376
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,000
wondering what it was
377
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,799
about lee kangshan that made me feel
378
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,039
this deja vu or this sense of
379
00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:32,960
familiarity
380
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:34,960
and eventually i realized that he
381
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,679
reminded me of my father
382
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,399
um it's a shame my father never got to
383
00:30:37,679 --> 00:30:40,320
see
384
00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:42,159
the khan shang on screen in any of my
385
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,240
films he passed away
386
00:30:42,159 --> 00:30:45,440
uh right while we were finishing making
387
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,840
rebels of the neon
388
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,640
god my first feature film so my father
389
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,559
never saw
390
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,320
lee kang shun but i always felt that
391
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:54,480
there was a very interesting
392
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,520
relationship between the two of them and
393
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:59,360
i think part of it
394
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:01,600
is because in some way i believe that
395
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,600
uh lee khan reminds me of my father he
396
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:07,120
my father was very stern he was not
397
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,640
talkative he was um he never said i love
398
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,240
you i would often as a kid i would
399
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,760
wonder does he really love me of course
400
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,919
he loved me but he just never
401
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,240
articulated it he never said that
402
00:31:13,919 --> 00:31:18,000
and so there's something there was a
403
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,000
mysterious quality about my
404
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,039
father and i think lee kangshan has that
405
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,640
same mysterious
406
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:27,120
quality another factor
407
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,679
is that as i shoot li kangshan over the
408
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,240
years
409
00:31:27,679 --> 00:31:31,200
i'm also shooting time the passage of
410
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,679
time
411
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,480
and these two became intertwined with
412
00:31:33,679 --> 00:31:36,720
one another
413
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,559
as i was making my films over the years
414
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,159
and this changed over time it wasn't in
415
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:40,559
the beginning that i had this notion
416
00:31:40,159 --> 00:31:43,360
that
417
00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:44,399
by shooting lee kangshan i was also kind
418
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,480
of
419
00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:48,159
doing a philosophical intervention about
420
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,760
time but
421
00:31:48,159 --> 00:31:51,440
there were changes that i started to
422
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,760
perceive in the congression
423
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,919
over the years and most people wouldn't
424
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,919
see this but i saw it because
425
00:31:55,919 --> 00:31:59,760
i was continually working with him and
426
00:31:57,919 --> 00:32:01,279
we had a very similar experience we're
427
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,600
shooting the same films or working
428
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:06,559
together all the time so i would see
429
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,960
these changes in his appearance and
430
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:11,279
eventually i started to realize
431
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,320
wow what a great thing it would be to
432
00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:15,039
shoot lee kang
433
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,880
from his youth when he was a teenager to
434
00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:19,919
the early 20s all the way
435
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,480
to old age and that way this whole body
436
00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:23,279
of work
437
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,679
would be a kind of meditation on this
438
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:26,640
one
439
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:27,200
actor and a record of it would be one
440
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,360
film
441
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,880
that documents an entire actor's life
442
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,799
from youth to old age
443
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,960
and gradually i started to feel like lee
444
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:37,200
kangshan was
445
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,720
an inextricable part of my own
446
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,200
filmmaking career and i can't leave him
447
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,880
behind he's just part of what i do
448
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,720
and i especially felt that when i made
449
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,440
the film stray dogs
450
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,720
um you can really really feel that there
451
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,640
another part of this
452
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,200
is that lee kung shung is not an idol
453
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,039
type figure he doesn't have the
454
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,559
uh he's not like a a-list actor that
455
00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:59,279
spends all this money doing
456
00:32:56,559 --> 00:33:00,640
skin care and exercising and checking
457
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:01,760
his weight you can see him gaining
458
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,399
weight you can see
459
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,880
that his skin aging and that's something
460
00:33:04,399 --> 00:33:06,799
that
461
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,799
also attracts me because it shows he's
462
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:10,960
real he's not one of these fake plastic
463
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:13,919
hollywood actors but you can see
464
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,880
the edges of time on his face as we move
465
00:33:13,919 --> 00:33:16,960
forward and that's
466
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,880
actually the same way i approach my
467
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,519
relationship with all my other actors
468
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,919
and i think i look at it as if we're
469
00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:26,559
like a cinematic family that i've i've
470
00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:26,559
cultivated
471
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,720
another uh i think if we go through
472
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,480
every actor we'll
473
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,559
it'll take our whole night so we'll move
474
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,320
on but
475
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:40,000
but there's another very important
476
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,600
collaborator that you don't talk about
477
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,880
that much that i want you to say
478
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,120
something about and that's your
479
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,840
cinematographer alel benrong
480
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,440
who i think has also been with you over
481
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,279
probably over 20 years
482
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,240
and he's worked on almost all your films
483
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:53,679
and i'm wondering if you could just tell
484
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,120
us a little bit about your collaborative
485
00:33:53,679 --> 00:33:57,519
relationship since the
486
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,159
image the miz on scene is so important
487
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:00,159
in your films
488
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,840
sure
489
00:35:00,839 --> 00:35:03,839
um
490
00:35:42,839 --> 00:35:45,839
um
491
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:33,599
so actually the last few years um
492
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,960
i haven't worked it with uh lauben wrong
493
00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:36,480
as much as i used to
494
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,720
and that's because i've been looking for
495
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,920
a freer style
496
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:43,280
less encumbered and and also more fluid
497
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,800
and so i've been working with a younger
498
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,920
cinematographer who
499
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:50,320
has a lot more time uh mr liao is
500
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,000
also busy with other projects so this
501
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,960
younger cinematographer can kind of be
502
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,119
with me on set
503
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,200
and be there on call whenever i need him
504
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:59,440
so we can work very closely but
505
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,160
for almost all of my future films the
506
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,079
albin wrong was the cinematographer and
507
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,839
there's something really amazing about
508
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:08,160
his ability to frame a shot
509
00:37:05,839 --> 00:37:09,119
and to really create a miz on scene
510
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,359
through the image
511
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:12,480
and he can almost always find the
512
00:37:11,359 --> 00:37:15,200
perfect spot
513
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,839
to set up the camera no matter what i'm
514
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,680
shooting
515
00:37:15,839 --> 00:37:19,520
he always nails it and gets the perfect
516
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,240
spot and there's this incredible sense
517
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,960
of depth
518
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:24,320
to his images that he's able to convey
519
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,920
through through the way he sets these
520
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,079
shots up
521
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,200
also because my my films are not
522
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:32,240
narrative driven
523
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:34,240
uh features he's a perfect
524
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:36,079
compliment to that because uh the
525
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:38,640
framing just is so powerful
526
00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:40,320
and so besides what time is it there in
527
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,359
which case i worked with a french
528
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,280
cinematographer
529
00:37:41,359 --> 00:37:45,359
the album rome shot basically every one
530
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,359
of my 35 millimeter films
531
00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:48,960
and stray dogs he also worked on even
532
00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:50,079
though that was digital but he was able
533
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,480
to acclimate himself
534
00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:54,079
to that perfectly and so i also hope to
535
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,640
continue working with him
536
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:56,640
in the future
537
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,960
um i'm wondering if you could say a
538
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,920
little bit about music
539
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,320
in your films there's uh actually a lack
540
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,960
of music in many of your earlier films
541
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,320
and then suddenly with uh the whole and
542
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,839
later
543
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,480
the wayward cloud we have these
544
00:38:13,839 --> 00:38:17,119
incredible musical numbers and tributes
545
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,480
to the
546
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:20,480
golden age of mandarin
547
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,480
music in the from the 50s to the 70s and
548
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,440
i'm wondering if you could talk a little
549
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,480
bit about
550
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:33,839
the place of those old songs in your
551
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,839
imagination and in your films
552
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,519
[Music]
553
00:39:12,839 --> 00:39:15,839
um
554
00:40:08,839 --> 00:40:11,839
um
555
00:42:14,839 --> 00:42:17,839
um
556
00:42:42,839 --> 00:42:45,839
um
557
00:43:52,839 --> 00:43:55,839
foreign
558
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:01,280
so my you're right that my early films i
559
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,119
rarely used music
560
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,720
and that was because i didn't want the
561
00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:06,960
music to lead
562
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:08,880
the audience's response to the story in
563
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,720
terms of emotion
564
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,920
those were more realist films that were
565
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:14,880
close to life
566
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,720
and music is in some sense uh has the
567
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,000
ability to control your emotions in your
568
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:21,280
response to the images
569
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,520
so it really wasn't until the whole
570
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,800
the film that i started to use and
571
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,280
employ a lot of this
572
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,400
this these oldies mandarin oldies and
573
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,400
one of them
574
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,440
um in in the whole i used a whole bunch
575
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,880
of songs from grace
576
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:36,560
john gulan a 1960s movie star from hong
577
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,800
kong and she
578
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,440
was famous for singing a lot of these
579
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:44,400
western style or american style
580
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:47,119
um songs and the issue was a song in all
581
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:49,079
these song and dance movies or musicals
582
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:51,760
and part of it was a tribute to that
583
00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:53,920
1960s hong kong style of
584
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,839
film that we all grew up watching it's
585
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,119
very similar to the same nostalgia that
586
00:44:55,839 --> 00:44:59,599
i also felt
587
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:01,280
for usha or martial arts cinema from
588
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:01,839
that era as well i think there's a kind
589
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,440
of
590
00:45:01,839 --> 00:45:07,680
similarity there to that nostalgia
591
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,800
but in the case of the whole this is
592
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,000
really
593
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:14,000
the music serves as a fantasy because
594
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:17,440
the setting of the whole is during an
595
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,640
end of the century against pandemic
596
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,200
where everything is
597
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,560
very dark very cold people are very
598
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,960
desperate
599
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,400
and i needed some kind of power to
600
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,359
battle that darkness
601
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:31,359
and i needed some kind of humanistic
602
00:45:29,359 --> 00:45:32,880
warmth and i think those songs represent
603
00:45:31,359 --> 00:45:36,240
that humanistic warmth
604
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:38,160
and they also represent what hong kong
605
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:40,560
films from that era meant to us and so
606
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,920
we used five songs from grace jong
607
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,760
and you could say it was a way to battle
608
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,560
the cold and battle the darkness
609
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,920
and it was a kind of a strong contrast
610
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,640
between the rest of the theme of the
611
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,560
film
612
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,839
and then in wayward cloud a few years
613
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,920
later
614
00:45:51,839 --> 00:45:55,200
again that's an even colder film and a
615
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,440
darker film it's
616
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,720
kind of an exploration of human nature
617
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,520
pushed to its very
618
00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:02,000
darkest point pushed to the very edge
619
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,960
and
620
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,960
again i used the songs as a similar way
621
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,400
to battle that darkness of the theme of
622
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,800
the film which deals with
623
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,240
uh the porn industry and all kinds of
624
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,040
exploitation and
625
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:16,000
this was a way to to kind of battle that
626
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,680
and then in my film
627
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,280
face i used them again i used quite a
628
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,160
few of the songs in face and i actually
629
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:23,119
had the french
630
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,640
actress mind the words with her lips and
631
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:25,359
so that was a very different approach to
632
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,599
this but
633
00:46:25,359 --> 00:46:29,040
you see the way that uh these songs are
634
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:29,920
employed differently in all of these
635
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,680
films
636
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,599
and when it comes down to it i think
637
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:36,000
these oldies have become a really
638
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:38,240
important part of my life
639
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,240
those songs they represent a certain
640
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:42,800
longing for love there's a naivete
641
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:45,440
between behind these songs
642
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,319
and i and i still grasp for that power
643
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,119
and what those
644
00:46:46,319 --> 00:46:49,119
songs represent
645
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:57,760
so my next question is
646
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,200
it's now been about 30 years uh since
647
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,480
you began your career
648
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:05,200
as a filmmaker and i'm wondering
649
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,079
in what ways has your conception of film
650
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,720
itself
651
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:09,359
changed over these 30 years what
652
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:10,960
elements
653
00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:12,880
early in your career you thought were so
654
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,400
important and now you just let go
655
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,160
or what things may be in the beginning
656
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,520
you didn't think were important and now
657
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:25,839
have become incredibly
658
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:25,839
central to your films uh
659
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,639
[Music]
660
00:48:32,839 --> 00:48:38,590
uh
661
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,590
[Music]
662
00:49:11,620 --> 00:49:14,699
[Music]
663
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,599
[Music]
664
00:51:20,839 --> 00:51:23,839
ah
665
00:51:48,839 --> 00:51:51,839
so
666
00:52:16,839 --> 00:52:19,839
um
667
00:52:30,839 --> 00:52:33,839
fashion
668
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:05,920
so one thing about film is that it's an
669
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,559
art form that relies
670
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:11,200
uh on practice you kind of learn as you
671
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:13,440
go and experience is so important
672
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,240
and a lot of that has to do with your
673
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,559
perspective
674
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:17,760
and and i think for so many filmmakers
675
00:54:16,559 --> 00:54:20,079
their perspective
676
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,359
is very much guided by traditional
677
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:23,040
notions of film
678
00:54:21,359 --> 00:54:25,040
and what those are is what you learn in
679
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,160
film school about all the rules the
680
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,440
structures
681
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,160
uh how to write a screenplay how film
682
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:34,079
aesthetics
683
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:35,760
function and all of that at the same
684
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:37,119
time is teaching you those things they
685
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,680
also limit you
686
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:41,440
and and i think what i've been doing
687
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,440
through the process of making my own
688
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,160
films is trying to create and find new
689
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,240
meanings
690
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,520
and new ways outside of that box that
691
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:50,079
we're often put in
692
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,760
when we go to film school so for me one
693
00:54:50,079 --> 00:54:55,599
of the big breakthroughs was a film
694
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:58,480
i made in 2003 called goodbye dragon in
695
00:54:55,599 --> 00:55:00,319
that was a film that was shot in a
696
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,000
theater in yonko called the fucha
697
00:55:00,319 --> 00:55:04,240
theater which
698
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,839
i had used and what time is it there and
699
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:07,200
it was going to be closed down they were
700
00:55:05,839 --> 00:55:09,920
selling it off
701
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,359
and when i heard that i kind of felt
702
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,799
that a part of my childhood was
703
00:55:11,359 --> 00:55:14,480
disappearing because that theater
704
00:55:12,799 --> 00:55:15,680
reminded me of all the film-going
705
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,079
experiences
706
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,680
from my childhood and from that era and
707
00:55:18,079 --> 00:55:21,599
so that's when i decided to make
708
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:24,400
goodbye dragon in there now what was
709
00:55:21,599 --> 00:55:26,960
unique about goodbye dragon inn was that
710
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,559
the real main character of the film is
711
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,839
not one of the actors but it's the
712
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:32,799
theater itself
713
00:55:29,839 --> 00:55:34,000
it's the first time that i use space any
714
00:55:32,799 --> 00:55:37,440
space as the main
715
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:39,280
character and that was a kind of
716
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,280
liberating feeling for me because it
717
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,000
showed me the ability to let go of the
718
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,559
actors
719
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,079
and use them and use space itself and
720
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:46,799
allow it to kind of move to the
721
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:48,799
forefront
722
00:55:46,799 --> 00:55:50,559
and also let the story go and let the
723
00:55:48,799 --> 00:55:54,160
film be more about
724
00:55:50,559 --> 00:55:55,920
the space itself and less action driven
725
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,520
and so the actors in that film are
726
00:55:55,920 --> 00:56:00,240
really not the most important
727
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,880
it's all about the action of gazing or
728
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:02,960
looking
729
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,920
or observing that space and letting that
730
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,400
space uh
731
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,599
sit in with you now it was because of
732
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,599
that film
733
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:11,920
that my work started to get more
734
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:14,720
attention uh from the art community
735
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:16,319
in taiwan i mean a lot of people would
736
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:17,680
ignore my films even people in the film
737
00:56:16,319 --> 00:56:18,319
community would sometimes ignore my
738
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,640
films
739
00:56:18,319 --> 00:56:22,240
but somehow goodbye dragon in really
740
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:24,559
resonated with a lot of people
741
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:26,079
uh in art exhibition and so i started to
742
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:28,319
get invitations to
743
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:30,240
bring my works into museums and into
744
00:56:28,319 --> 00:56:32,640
those museum spaces
745
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:35,280
and the focus here was really all about
746
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:38,000
the gaze and the observation
747
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,680
gradually that became a major theme in
748
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,359
my work and i started to move away from
749
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,440
the narrative driven focus
750
00:56:41,359 --> 00:56:44,799
and further and further into exploring
751
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,640
these spaces
752
00:56:44,799 --> 00:56:49,200
so later i did a whole series of films
753
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:51,760
called walkers where i would shoot nikon
754
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:53,599
walking through different spaces and
755
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:56,000
again this was part of
756
00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:57,680
my own transformation as an artist where
757
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,640
i started to look at myself as more like
758
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,200
a painter
759
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:02,079
someone who was rendering still life
760
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:06,079
sketches
761
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:09,280
as opposed to a filmmaker and so
762
00:57:06,079 --> 00:57:11,359
as this transition took place the image
763
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:13,280
became so much more important not the
764
00:57:11,359 --> 00:57:15,440
story but the image really took over
765
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:18,160
and it encouraged me to be bolder more
766
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:20,640
creative to move in new directions
767
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,440
and and i even wonder you know moving
768
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,000
forward
769
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,720
do i want to make a film that has no
770
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,200
beginning
771
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,480
no end no middle you just go in and you
772
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,799
experience it but
773
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,520
the whole notion of continuity is
774
00:57:30,799 --> 00:57:33,839
completely
775
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,359
deconstructed and so this was the
776
00:57:33,839 --> 00:57:37,119
beginning of that journey and this is
777
00:57:35,359 --> 00:57:39,359
kind of how i've evolved over these
778
00:57:37,119 --> 00:57:39,359
years
779
00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:43,200
so maybe i'll ask one more question but
780
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,079
it's a big question and then we'll open
781
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,160
it up to
782
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:47,359
the audience and this picks up on what
783
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,400
we were talking about this
784
00:57:47,359 --> 00:57:50,640
transformation
785
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,480
of your style over the last couple of
786
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,920
years because i think
787
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,599
there's really been a lot of major
788
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,000
changes but one of them is
789
00:57:55,599 --> 00:58:00,000
like you said moving into museum spaces
790
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,520
i think that's certainly one of the main
791
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,839
shifts that's taken place but there's
792
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,559
also others one of them is i notice your
793
00:58:03,839 --> 00:58:06,640
camera
794
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:08,559
has been moving more uh used to always
795
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,920
have fixed camera now we're seeing more
796
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:13,040
camera movement
797
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:15,119
also the emergence of
798
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,240
extreme close-ups especially of lee
799
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:17,839
kangshan's face
800
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,760
though we didn't see those early on but
801
00:58:17,839 --> 00:58:22,720
now we're seeing a lot of those
802
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,920
um and also i noticed many of your early
803
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,880
films they would be
804
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:28,079
in very closed locations so like legally
805
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,680
conscious apartment
806
00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:31,760
so many of your films so much action
807
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:34,319
takes place in these these closed
808
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,680
locations or the theater for instance in
809
00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:37,839
goodbye dragon in
810
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:39,920
but if you look at a film some of your
811
00:58:37,839 --> 00:58:40,319
more recent films like the walker series
812
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,240
or
813
00:58:40,319 --> 00:58:44,000
journey to the west you see this
814
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,960
interaction between
815
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,520
the environment and average people and
816
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,200
just
817
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,200
not extras but just normal people
818
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,720
walking on the streets and your actors
819
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,920
and so there's a lot of these shifts and
820
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,839
i'm wondering if you could talk about
821
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:58,319
some of these other
822
00:58:55,839 --> 00:58:58,319
changes
823
01:01:22,839 --> 01:01:25,839
um
824
01:01:36,839 --> 01:01:39,839
um
825
01:04:52,839 --> 01:04:55,839
um
826
01:06:02,839 --> 01:06:05,839
is
827
01:06:51,119 --> 01:06:55,200
so the question of why my work has gone
828
01:06:54,559 --> 01:06:56,799
through this
829
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,640
transition i think it's really an
830
01:06:56,799 --> 01:07:00,319
extension of
831
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:02,000
the body of what i've been doing from
832
01:07:00,319 --> 01:07:03,200
one film to another there's a thread
833
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,440
that runs through
834
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,880
and gradually it starts to change and
835
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:09,039
transform and what you do
836
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,720
in an earlier film often impacts what
837
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:13,039
comes later and it's also about this
838
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,799
need to kind of update what i'm doing
839
01:07:13,039 --> 01:07:16,799
so let me just give you some examples
840
01:07:14,799 --> 01:07:20,240
for instance around 2012
841
01:07:16,799 --> 01:07:22,240
i did a stage play in which the start in
842
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:23,440
it sometimes i direct various stage
843
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:25,760
performances
844
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:28,000
and there was a section in the work that
845
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:30,400
lasted over 10 minutes
846
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,839
where lee kangshan was walking extremely
847
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,720
slowly
848
01:07:31,839 --> 01:07:35,920
not slow motion but just this extremely
849
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:38,079
calculated type
850
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,960
of movement and i thought there was such
851
01:07:38,079 --> 01:07:40,640
a beauty
852
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:42,880
in what he was doing it was just so
853
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:44,079
gorgeous the way uh he was moving and
854
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,799
controlling his body
855
01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:48,480
in that sequence but i also realized
856
01:07:46,799 --> 01:07:51,039
since it's a stage play
857
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,039
as soon as it's over it's gone there's
858
01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:56,160
nothing to ever
859
01:07:53,039 --> 01:07:58,240
uh there's no record of that beauty
860
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,760
and so i decided i wanted to do
861
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,319
something to capture that beauty and
862
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,960
that was
863
01:08:00,319 --> 01:08:05,280
the film series called walker's shinja
864
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:08,480
and so i started to work on that
865
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:10,960
and it was all about recapturing that
866
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,400
uh cadence of movement that lee khan
867
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:13,359
first showed me in that stage
868
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,039
performance
869
01:08:13,359 --> 01:08:16,480
and a lot of people look at the series
870
01:08:15,039 --> 01:08:18,880
of the walkers and they
871
01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:20,560
look at it look at it and categorize it
872
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,799
as a type of performance art but it's
873
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:25,040
not i look at it this is cinema
874
01:08:22,799 --> 01:08:26,880
and what i did was i took lee kangshan
875
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:28,640
and i put him in different environments
876
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,239
walking in that same kind of very
877
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:34,159
calculated slow
878
01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:37,600
um manner and so we shot him in malaysia
879
01:08:34,159 --> 01:08:38,640
in japan in france and you can see how
880
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:41,359
his body
881
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:42,719
placed in different environments has a
882
01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:44,080
different relationship with those
883
01:08:42,719 --> 01:08:44,880
environments and you don't know what's
884
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:47,120
going to happen
885
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,920
it's a kind of mystery of discovery of
886
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:50,480
how
887
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,679
locals are going to interact and respond
888
01:08:50,480 --> 01:08:53,520
to what they're seeing
889
01:08:51,679 --> 01:08:55,759
and so over the course of roughly five
890
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,960
to six years i made eight films in this
891
01:08:55,759 --> 01:08:58,640
walker series
892
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:00,000
and i just and actually i plan to keep
893
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:03,359
going maybe next year i'll do one in
894
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:05,279
washington or another one in france
895
01:09:03,359 --> 01:09:06,880
and what i hope is that i'll be able to
896
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:08,000
eventually edit all of those films
897
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:10,239
together as one
898
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,359
massive cinematic film to be shown in
899
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:13,199
museums
900
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:14,880
and it would just be a really monumental
901
01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:17,279
kind of uh collection of
902
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:19,199
all of these different sites that are
903
01:09:17,279 --> 01:09:22,719
pieced together
904
01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:25,759
so part of this is
905
01:09:22,719 --> 01:09:27,199
when i'm exploring different things i'm
906
01:09:25,759 --> 01:09:29,199
always trying to carry out
907
01:09:27,199 --> 01:09:31,440
something that's going to push my work
908
01:09:29,199 --> 01:09:33,440
forward so i'll give you another example
909
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:35,759
about the close-ups and that has to do
910
01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:38,400
with about three or four years ago i
911
01:09:35,759 --> 01:09:40,080
made a virtual reality film
912
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:41,759
and the thing about virtual reality
913
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:44,640
films is there's no close-ups
914
01:09:41,759 --> 01:09:46,239
all you have is this your immersive
915
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,000
experience in the environment
916
01:09:46,239 --> 01:09:50,159
and it took a lot of time for me to
917
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,960
acclimate myself to that new environment
918
01:09:50,159 --> 01:09:54,159
because
919
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:56,480
you have to look up and down 360 degrees
920
01:09:54,159 --> 01:09:58,719
your whole notion of amazon scene is
921
01:09:56,480 --> 01:10:01,280
completely transformed
922
01:09:58,719 --> 01:10:02,719
and after i finished that work i decided
923
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,239
i wanted to make a film with nothing but
924
01:10:02,719 --> 01:10:06,080
close-ups all close-ups
925
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:07,679
because to kind of make up for the loss
926
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,120
of close-ups in the vr film
927
01:10:07,679 --> 01:10:10,960
and so that's when i made this film
928
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,760
called your face where everything was
929
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,719
playing out
930
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:15,360
on the faces of the actors and so you
931
01:10:14,719 --> 01:10:17,679
see the
932
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:19,120
ways in which uh the transformation of
933
01:10:17,679 --> 01:10:21,040
some of my aesthetic choices are
934
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:23,520
directly tied to previous
935
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:24,159
films that i made and there's a certain
936
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,880
logic
937
01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:28,239
um that takes place in terms of how you
938
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:31,199
you make these films but
939
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:32,640
increasingly so i want to try to work on
940
01:10:31,199 --> 01:10:34,960
films that try to
941
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:36,800
uh challenge things and push forward and
942
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:39,199
increasingly moving to this model
943
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,560
that's based in museums and maybe even
944
01:10:39,199 --> 01:10:42,800
away from theaters
945
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:44,400
but even distribute my films through a
946
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:46,320
museum circuit where they're
947
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,679
exhibited in different museums as
948
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,199
perhaps a way to challenge and
949
01:10:47,679 --> 01:10:51,360
completely rid myself of the
950
01:10:49,199 --> 01:10:52,800
kind of box office pressure and find an
951
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:59,840
alternate uh
952
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:59,840
outlet for creativity
953
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:15,600
okay this first question is about
954
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:17,679
scripting how do you go about scripting
955
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:20,000
your films as a lot of scenes do not
956
01:11:17,679 --> 01:11:21,280
involve a conventional plot to propel
957
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,000
the story forward
958
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:26,960
but instead use his time as the engine
959
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,960
to move characters
960
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,840
uh
961
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,840
location
962
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,840
uh
963
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,840
um
964
01:15:51,199 --> 01:15:55,520
and so let me uh translate the last
965
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:55,520
answer
966
01:15:55,920 --> 01:16:00,400
okay so in the beginning of my work
967
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:03,040
since uh viva lamour
968
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:06,480
uh in that early stage even at that
969
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:08,560
stage i never really had a completely
970
01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:10,320
full screenplay that i was working off
971
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:10,800
of often i would have a screenplay that
972
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:14,000
was maybe
973
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:15,600
two-thirds complete but often i wouldn't
974
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,560
even have an ending or i wouldn't have a
975
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,640
final scene
976
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:20,719
and so it would go into the film with
977
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:24,400
something of an improvisational
978
01:16:20,719 --> 01:16:28,960
uh portion and so that's always been
979
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:31,440
uh the case for me now for for film
980
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,719
usually you need the screenplay for the
981
01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:34,560
investors
982
01:16:32,719 --> 01:16:36,159
they need to base their budget off the
983
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,080
screen play there's
984
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:39,360
it's important for the crew in many
985
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:40,719
cases but
986
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,960
i'm going to give you some counter
987
01:16:40,719 --> 01:16:45,040
examples because over the years
988
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:46,560
the screenplay has become increasingly
989
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:48,719
less important in my
990
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:50,719
body of work so to take the example of
991
01:16:48,719 --> 01:16:53,840
stray dogs
992
01:16:50,719 --> 01:16:56,560
um that's a film in which
993
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:57,360
the the last scene of the ending of the
994
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,120
film if you
995
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:01,040
if you've seen the film you'll know that
996
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,880
lee kangshan lives in a
997
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:05,280
basically amid the ruins with these two
998
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:07,360
children and
999
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:09,520
that the film ends with them looking at
1000
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:11,120
the lee kangshan looking at this mural
1001
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,719
or this painting it's a landscape
1002
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:14,960
painting that's on the wall
1003
01:17:12,719 --> 01:17:16,000
uh amid these ruins that we find and it
1004
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:17,600
was an actual painting
1005
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,040
that we discovered there amid the ruins
1006
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:21,199
and i was quite shocked
1007
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:22,159
when i discovered this and i decided
1008
01:17:21,199 --> 01:17:24,320
right there
1009
01:17:22,159 --> 01:17:26,560
i wanted to end the film on that image
1010
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:28,960
and so it's completely different than
1011
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:32,080
what the original screenplay called for
1012
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:33,199
but this is an example of the importance
1013
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,440
of the location
1014
01:17:33,199 --> 01:17:37,920
and the openness and being open enough
1015
01:17:35,440 --> 01:17:39,920
to allow the location to lead the images
1016
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:42,960
and to leave the structure of the story
1017
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:45,760
in a place that it needs to go
1018
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,880
another example of that would be when we
1019
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:50,000
look at
1020
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:51,120
uh the days uh that's a my most recent
1021
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,280
film i basically had
1022
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:54,239
no screenplay when i wrote this film i
1023
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:56,560
went into it
1024
01:17:54,239 --> 01:17:58,159
with no idea of what i was going to do
1025
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:00,880
all i really wanted to
1026
01:17:58,159 --> 01:18:02,960
do with that film was capture um what
1027
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:06,000
was happening with lee kang
1028
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:09,360
and at the time he had been
1029
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,960
ill and so i wanted to kind of capture
1030
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:13,199
what he was going through with with his
1031
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:15,520
body there was a
1032
01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:16,320
a lot of challenges that he was facing
1033
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,719
and something
1034
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:20,159
really drew me in about that and so i
1035
01:18:18,719 --> 01:18:21,600
started to
1036
01:18:20,159 --> 01:18:23,199
shoot him and i didn't know what the
1037
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:25,120
result of that was going to be whether
1038
01:18:23,199 --> 01:18:27,280
it would be another museum piece
1039
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:28,719
or whether or not i would make it into a
1040
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,400
film but i just wanted to keep my
1041
01:18:28,719 --> 01:18:31,840
possibilities open so i started to
1042
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,920
document what was happening
1043
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:40,239
and eventually that would evolve into
1044
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:44,159
the days
1045
01:18:40,239 --> 01:18:44,159
let's see what other questions we have
1046
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:50,159
all right how about this one um this is
1047
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:51,280
just what advice do you have for
1048
01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:54,800
aspiring
1049
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:59,920
uh queer asian directors or maybe even
1050
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:59,920
directors of all uh all directors but
1051
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:02,480
uh
1052
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,840
young
1053
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:19,840
um
1054
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:29,840
uh
1055
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:11,120
so i think a big part of it
1056
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:12,719
is to make the kind of films that you
1057
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,400
love and make the kind of films that you
1058
01:22:12,719 --> 01:22:16,960
want to make and
1059
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:18,560
you know there's a lot of people that
1060
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,600
worry about you know is someone going to
1061
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:21,120
like my film
1062
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,400
is it going to make any money is it
1063
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:23,600
going to get exhibited there's all kinds
1064
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:25,760
of anxiety
1065
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:27,600
about people's approach to filmmaking
1066
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:30,080
but i don't look at it that way
1067
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:31,520
i try to increasingly look at my films
1068
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:34,639
as a painter would
1069
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:37,040
and to let all of that go and so
1070
01:22:34,639 --> 01:22:39,120
i recently went to mars marsai in france
1071
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:40,719
to shoot one of my walkers series
1072
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:42,400
and i ran into someone there who was
1073
01:22:40,719 --> 01:22:44,000
asking me oh mr thai
1074
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:46,400
so did you prepare your storyboard did
1075
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:47,679
you uh did you prepare your screenplay
1076
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:48,560
did you do all your research about
1077
01:22:47,679 --> 01:22:51,360
marseille
1078
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:53,040
and i don't have a storyboard i don't
1079
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,960
have a screenplay and i didn't do any
1080
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:56,239
research about masai i just looked at it
1081
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:58,239
like i'm a tourist
1082
01:22:56,239 --> 01:22:59,360
and that i'm coming to this place and
1083
01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:01,360
i'm just
1084
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:03,760
letting it flow over me and seeing what
1085
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:05,360
i like and going with what attracted me
1086
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:07,600
and when i got to marseille i loved the
1087
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:08,880
sunshine there and so i would go and
1088
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:10,639
shoot places where
1089
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,560
the sun was shining and i could kind of
1090
01:23:10,639 --> 01:23:14,239
follow the light and that's
1091
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:15,600
that's where i went and i was just like
1092
01:23:14,239 --> 01:23:19,199
kind of like a painter
1093
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:22,320
and so i think you kind of see what you
1094
01:23:19,199 --> 01:23:24,000
get uh in some sense and
1095
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,760
for me though a lot of people look at me
1096
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:27,280
and they have this imagination that i'm
1097
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,880
this filmmaker with all of the things
1098
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:30,480
attached to being a filmmaker and have
1099
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:32,639
my storyboards and all of that
1100
01:23:30,480 --> 01:23:33,520
but i don't i let all of that go and i
1101
01:23:32,639 --> 01:23:37,360
just try to
1102
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:37,360
have a more painterly approach
1103
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:49,840
okay that was a child here
1104
01:23:45,679 --> 01:23:49,840
we are thai dog
1105
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:05,280
uh so here's one that always comes up i
1106
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,120
think
1107
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:08,719
we have to mention this this is about
1108
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:12,719
water in your films
1109
01:24:08,719 --> 01:24:12,719
um i think there's josh
1110
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,840
um
1111
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,840
um
1112
01:25:57,199 --> 01:26:00,880
so i think since it's symbolic i think
1113
01:25:59,199 --> 01:26:03,040
you can probably tell pretty easily what
1114
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:04,480
it means i mean a lot of the symbolism
1115
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:06,320
comes from elements of life
1116
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:08,080
and i you try to create meaning out of
1117
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:10,800
these things and
1118
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:12,239
i think that of course in taiwan it's a
1119
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,560
very human environment
1120
01:26:12,239 --> 01:26:15,520
and because of that humidity water is
1121
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:18,159
all around us
1122
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:19,679
and you also see flooding in a lot of my
1123
01:26:18,159 --> 01:26:21,440
films and that's something that i
1124
01:26:19,679 --> 01:26:22,000
encounter in my own life and so i try to
1125
01:26:21,440 --> 01:26:23,600
bring it
1126
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:25,440
into my films but i think in terms of
1127
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:27,760
the symbolism water is something that
1128
01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:29,760
it's very easy for audiences to
1129
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:32,639
understand and to get what i'm trying
1130
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:32,639
uh to do there
1131
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:36,719
okay once i
1132
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:51,760
okay this one is about maybe we'll do
1133
01:26:48,159 --> 01:26:55,600
one final question here
1134
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:58,320
about working with actors and nudity in
1135
01:26:55,600 --> 01:27:02,639
your films and how you approach them
1136
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:02,639
with these very vulnerable moments
1137
01:27:46,110 --> 01:27:53,969
[Music]
1138
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:01,840
foreign
1139
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:29,840
um
1140
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:55,360
so i think i i do have an appreciation
1141
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:55,920
for the human body and i think most of
1142
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:58,320
us do
1143
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:59,920
and we and there's a certain beauty to
1144
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:03,280
the human form
1145
01:29:59,920 --> 01:30:05,280
and you and you see that in my films
1146
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:07,360
and for some actors that is a challenge
1147
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:10,320
i know that but i never make
1148
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:10,639
kind of excessive requests about uh for
1149
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,040
them
1150
01:30:10,639 --> 01:30:14,719
when we're performing in these uh scenes
1151
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:16,080
and i think they realize that it's part
1152
01:30:14,719 --> 01:30:17,679
of the actual film
1153
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:19,679
uh it's part of the story it's not
1154
01:30:17,679 --> 01:30:21,040
something that's forced so
1155
01:30:19,679 --> 01:30:23,920
to give you an example when i made the
1156
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:24,960
film face with lily shaw she's a model
1157
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:27,120
and i thought she would be very
1158
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:28,639
confident and comfortable taking her
1159
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:29,920
clothes off in front of the camera
1160
01:30:28,639 --> 01:30:32,320
but she turned out to be much more
1161
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:33,199
self-conscious than i ever expected she
1162
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:34,320
told me
1163
01:30:33,199 --> 01:30:36,480
that she had worked with another
1164
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:38,400
director and who also i guess had
1165
01:30:36,480 --> 01:30:40,400
requested she remove her clothes
1166
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:41,600
she said before she took her clothes off
1167
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:43,760
in that situation
1168
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:45,120
she already felt naked but it was very
1169
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:46,719
different when she worked with me
1170
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:48,719
because i think it was a much more
1171
01:30:46,719 --> 01:30:50,400
natural approach and
1172
01:30:48,719 --> 01:30:51,920
i think it all comes down to the
1173
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:53,920
attitude and what's really needed for
1174
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:55,679
the story and so usually when i
1175
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,120
present nudity in my films it's because
1176
01:30:55,679 --> 01:30:58,719
someone's in the shower or they're
1177
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:00,639
making love but it all
1178
01:30:58,719 --> 01:31:02,000
is rooted in reality and i try to really
1179
01:31:00,639 --> 01:31:03,920
give people a semblance of
1180
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:06,639
what uh the real state of those
1181
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:06,639
characters are
1182
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:17,840
uh
1183
01:31:26,719 --> 01:31:30,000
we thought maybe a most beautiful way to
1184
01:31:28,639 --> 01:31:32,480
end this event
1185
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:34,400
is to invite mr thai that maybe sing
1186
01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:35,920
just a few lines from one of these songs
1187
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:37,199
these oldies that he's always singing
1188
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,080
and i'm just asking if he might be
1189
01:31:37,199 --> 01:31:41,199
willing to
1190
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:41,199
share a little bit of that
1191
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:45,840
what
1192
01:31:55,320 --> 01:31:58,380
[Music]
1193
01:32:08,250 --> 01:32:16,290
[Music]
1194
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:24,029
[Music]
1195
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:27,840
farm
1196
01:32:28,370 --> 01:32:40,869
[Music]
1197
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:55,840
thank you so much
1198
01:32:58,719 --> 01:33:01,440
this is it