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good afternoon or good morning good
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evening depending on what time zone
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you're logging in from we welcome you
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my name is michael berry i'm the
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director of the ucla center for chinese
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studies
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it's our great pleasure to have
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everybody back virtually for yet
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another event uh we really really
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appreciate everyone's support of coming
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back week after week to our various
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activities
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um i do want to give a little
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advertisement we do have one other event
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this week
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that will be tomorrow evening pacific
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standard time at 8 pm
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we'll we'll be welcoming susan chan egan
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and
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bai shenyong and they will be talking
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about their
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new english language version of
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beijing young's reader of dream of the
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red chamber and so
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please join us online tomorrow for that
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and check our website
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to log in to our mailing list to be up
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to date on future events
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it's my great pleasure now to uh welcome
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everyone to today's event
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and i'm going to hand the reins over to
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my colleague
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huidrin mai who is a professor in asian
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languages and cultures
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and she will be introducing our speaker
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today and i will also
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lend a hand over the moderating duties
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to professor mai
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as well and so please join me in
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welcoming uh huijin to the stage to
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moderate the events thank you thank you
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thank you uh michael
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and hello everyone my name is huijin mai
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and i'm the assistant professor
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at ucla assistant professor in
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medieval chinese studies and before we
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start let me say a few words to
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introduce
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professor xinhuan our guest speaker for
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today
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so i have known xing from our old days
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at harvard
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and i have enjoyed a great many times
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talking to him and learning so much
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about his projects on silk road and also
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on many other things so sheen graduated
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from harvard university
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with a phd degree in inner asia
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and all tech studies in 2017
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after which he has been teaching as an
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assistant professor
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at princeton university and chinguan's
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research covers a
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very extensive and impressive range of
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questions
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uh methodologies and even disciplines
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so and uh based on the many
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conversations we had over the years i'm
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very very excited to
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be so privileged to hear about his
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newest and upcoming book project
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so um xinguin has been a researcher as
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you know on the silk road and
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and on digital humanities studies
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as far as i know and he is also a
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prolific writer
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and has published extensively on major
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journals both in the us
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and in china as well and he's currently
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finishing up his uh book project
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entitled agents of the silk world dunham
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envoys and the integration of eastern
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eurasia
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and which is a social history of
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diplomatic travel
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on the silk world written on the basis
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of dun hong documents
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and today we are in for a very special
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treat because professor xinhuan
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has made a return from his many
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metaphorical
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and actual travels to the silk road
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outside the border and he will be
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sharing with us his latest research
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today
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entitled capital of the past urban and
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cultural transformations of chiang an
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900 to 1400 now please join me and
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uh welcoming professor one shin
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thank you very much uh for doing i think
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i'd like to thank professor mai
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and professor barry uh for the
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introduction and
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uh uh thanks to esther for uh organizing
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the event so like every speaker
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my first line is let me share my screen
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all right see desktop
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all right you can see it
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yes okay great so uh
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again thank you everybody for uh for
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coming
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tonight or well from this evening so
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tonight
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i am uh talking about a project that i
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started a few just a few years ago
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about the history of chang this is still
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very much at the beginning stage so i
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i'm really looking forward to
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your questions at the end um
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so just to uh briefly
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briefly uh give you a an overview
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i think this audience i know this uh
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know this history
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very well uh in the tong dynasty
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uh so i got these maps from the
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university of washington
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uh uh website in the tang dynasty chiang
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mai was the
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capital right the story is kind of
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simple in the tang dynasty china was the
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capital
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you know it was not the capital anymore
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the capital became uh kaiphong
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and uh in the northern song chang was
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still
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a part of the song but then uh
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in your when the gene uh emerged
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onto the uh onto the the the
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uh the political landscape changlang was
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ultimately
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conquered by uh by the jinn and uh
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became part of the georgian gin
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uh land um and then in the yuan dynasty
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ching island was
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still an important uh uh provincial
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level center
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and then in the ming uh you have uh
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the same place also provincial center
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now uh is
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uh is known as shia so this is
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sort of roughly uh the uh
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uh history the broadest outline of the
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history of chiang
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during this period what i'm trying to
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work on in this project is not the
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history of changlan during the tang but
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the history of chiang mai
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after the time uh more specifically
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uh the history of changhan from the
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end of the tongue to the beginning of
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the ming so roughly 500 years
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so to understand what happened
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in chiang rai after the fall of the tang
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we
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need to have a basic sense of what the
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city
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looks like during the time so now i'll
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just give you a very brief introduction
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so the town city of changhan is roughly
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a square
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uh you have uh the imperial city
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uh you can see my mouth right um uh the
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imperial city
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uh which is uh which housed the
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bureaucracy
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uh all the government tow institutions
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are
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are mostly housed in the imperial city
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the hwangchang
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and then you have the palace city which
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held
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the palace but then very early on
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a new palace the darmian palace was
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built
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uh in the northeast uh and then uh
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later uh a xinjing palace uh this is in
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the
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shenzhou uh another new palace was built
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here
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and then along with the royal park so
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the these spaces are mostly uh
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what we can consider imperial spaces
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uh the place where emperors were most
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active
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uh and then uh the rest of the city
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are divided into these uh square
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units that uh we usually call word were
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fun
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uh these words were walled up
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structures they were not open so uh
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they're curfews uh
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very often so you kind of have to go
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back if you live
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in one of these words before sunset
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and then uh breaking the pattern of
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these
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wards are the two market western market
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eastern market and then
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one uh uh region
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uh now uh here i i i sort of didn't
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translate it
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it's called true young somebody
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translated as serb
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serpentine pond uh in the rest of the
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paper i translate it as
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twisting river but it's not really a
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river it's a pond
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so maybe serpentine pond is a better
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translation
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um so within the space
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of this uh this uh this uh uh
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this city uh lived uh
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about one million people right so this
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is a very large city and and to give you
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a sense of how large
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it was uh i've overlaid the
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map of manhattan on top uh and
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with the same scale so uh the city of
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tangan is about 1.5 or 1.6 the size of
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the island of manhattan
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so very large space and this would have
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implication for what happened later
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so of course the city of chiang man in
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the tongue is a topic that
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has a long attracted scholarly attention
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so i'm not gonna have time to do a very
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detailed review but just to
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give you a few highlights uh
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there is a certain uh well the first
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group of
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uh uh these works that i'm i'm laying
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out here
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uh really focus on chang and history as
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a multicultural uh cosmopolis
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uh focusing on the life of foreigners
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especially central asian people
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in the city of changhan and then we have
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another group of
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a more recent scholarship that considers
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chiang mai's role as the center of the
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tom empire
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as the uh as the metropolis of the top
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um this is these are mostly published
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around 2000
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uh and then a little bit more even more
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recent than that
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we have a group of sources a group of
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works that
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deal with uh cultural life in china
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especially the activities of literary
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and also examination candidates
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and they're sort of cultural activity in
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chiang mai
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so when we come back to the map of
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chiang and these groups of scholarship
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can actually be
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mapped onto different regions of the
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city
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so they're not all talking about the
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city as a whole
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because uh a work like uh victor jung's
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uh
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work about the structure of the the city
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uh i
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i would say the emphasis is on the
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uh on chiang mai as a metropolis right
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the tongans
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different institutions uh uh that
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make up the palaces and the uh the
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imperial city
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whereas uh edward schaefer's book mostly
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focused on
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um chang as a cosmopolis
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the different people from different
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cultural background
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that co-existed in chiang mai and it
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just so happened that the western market
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is the region where
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00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,000
most of these foreigners lived so around
290
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,399
this region you have
291
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,839
a lot of sauriasian temples and uh
292
00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:35,839
nestorian uh
293
00:11:31,839 --> 00:11:38,240
temples um uh and so
294
00:11:35,839 --> 00:11:38,959
when you map this book onto the um to
295
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,600
the city
296
00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:42,079
uh it uh for the most part deal with the
297
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,000
uh
298
00:11:42,079 --> 00:11:45,600
the western market and and the
299
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,079
surrounding area
300
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,000
and then the third group of scholarship
301
00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:53,279
uh like linda fong's uh
302
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:56,399
recent book uh deals with the
303
00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:59,360
uh what i call cultural change
304
00:11:56,399 --> 00:12:01,440
the activities of the literary and
305
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:04,720
examination candidates
306
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:06,480
and the reason why these people mostly
307
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,800
were active in this region
308
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,399
was because they were active they were
309
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,680
living in the most expensive
310
00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:16,800
quarters which are uh in the uh north
311
00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:19,519
east they were uh
312
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:21,760
enjoying their life in uh in red light
313
00:12:19,519 --> 00:12:24,639
district in the ping kong world which is
314
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:26,880
uh right next to the east market uh they
315
00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:30,720
were close to the imperial city
316
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,600
and they were uh uh especially for the
317
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,079
examination
318
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,040
uh candidates uh they were well after
319
00:12:34,079 --> 00:12:37,760
they succeed
320
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,720
they would inscribe their name on the uh
321
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,279
on the
322
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,800
pagoda or the great goose pagoda or
323
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:45,200
dienta
324
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:48,480
and then they would also celebrate uh
325
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:50,560
near uh the twisting river or or chujang
326
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,079
so in this sense these different groups
327
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:55,839
of works are also
328
00:12:52,079 --> 00:12:58,800
about different regions in chiang mai
329
00:12:55,839 --> 00:12:59,680
but when we get to chiang mai after the
330
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,519
town there
331
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:04,000
there is a sudden and very precipitous
332
00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:06,079
drop
333
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,839
in terms of the number of a scholarship
334
00:13:06,079 --> 00:13:11,120
that we have um
335
00:13:07,839 --> 00:13:14,160
so i found uh these two books that are
336
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,880
serious scholarship uh aung chang and on
337
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,160
the region
338
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,680
uh uh during this period but as uh
339
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,600
those of you who have read these books
340
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:22,720
would know that they're really not about
341
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,000
the city itself
342
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:28,480
they're about the uh the region uh uh
343
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,279
either shanghi or or the guangzhou
344
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,560
region
345
00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:34,720
so the history of chiang mai in this 500
346
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:37,279
years really is a topic that has
347
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,120
that is yet to be uh to be discussed uh
348
00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:42,240
seriously
349
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:45,760
so in order to do this uh i
350
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:48,240
uh will uh divide my talk into a few
351
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,680
uh parts the first part i would talk
352
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,760
about urban changes
353
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:53,519
uh what happened to the city itself
354
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,760
after the fall of the time
355
00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:57,199
and then the second part i'll talk about
356
00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,240
a uh and
357
00:13:57,199 --> 00:14:02,240
what a company what cultural exchanges
358
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,519
that accompany these are
359
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,079
urban exchanges third part i'll give you
360
00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:09,360
a case
361
00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:12,480
study about a certain area
362
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,079
of the city and then finally i'll try to
363
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,680
highlight some of the things that i
364
00:14:14,079 --> 00:14:19,920
think are significant
365
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:22,000
about this project so urban changes
366
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:24,000
what exactly happened to the city of
367
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,240
chiang mai after the fall of the time
368
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,680
the most important thing is downsizing
369
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,639
it just became smaller
370
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,279
a pretty simple story here is the city
371
00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:35,680
of chiang
372
00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:38,880
in the tong here is the city in the song
373
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,560
so the song well this
374
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,880
started in the five dynasties
375
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:46,320
essentially
376
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:50,240
people at the time reused what was the
377
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:53,199
uh the old uh imperial city
378
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,920
uh where the bureau bureaucracy was and
379
00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:59,360
used that
380
00:14:53,920 --> 00:15:01,680
as the new uh city so this is one aspect
381
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,600
obviously the changes involves a lot of
382
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,920
very complicated uh uh
383
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:08,480
things that we'll talk about but the the
384
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,360
basic uh story is that it became much
385
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,880
much smaller
386
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:16,399
about one uh 15th of the
387
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:20,240
uh of the size of tom chang but then
388
00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:22,720
uh in the ming dynasty so in the song
389
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,760
in the jin and the iran the city stayed
390
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,560
roughly
391
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,839
like this and then in the ming dynasty
392
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,639
expanded uh
393
00:15:27,839 --> 00:15:31,360
a bit to the east and to the north and
394
00:15:30,639 --> 00:15:34,560
that
395
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:36,720
essentially gave us the city that
396
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,160
uh we have now their you know uh
397
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,240
modifications but
398
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,480
the qing city largely followed the
399
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:45,040
structure of the mean city
400
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,560
so this is roughly just the uh the basic
401
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,680
story of urban change
402
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:52,320
that i'm talking about today
403
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,120
but as you can imagine a downsizing just
404
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,079
it doesn't just
405
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,360
mean you know making everything smaller
406
00:15:56,079 --> 00:16:00,399
it also causes
407
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:04,000
structural uh instability in the urban
408
00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:05,120
space what happened in the downsizing
409
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,000
process is that
410
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,880
certain offices had to be abandoned such
411
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:14,399
as the offices of the old six bureaus
412
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:17,759
obviously these are imperial level uh
413
00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:21,199
offices that uh were no longer
414
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:24,399
useful for uh a new china as a
415
00:16:21,199 --> 00:16:27,600
center of a province but new
416
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:30,000
offices or new buildings were also built
417
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,720
such as the construction of the cairo
418
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,839
monastery
419
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:37,120
is roughly in this region of the city
420
00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:39,040
because the old uh
421
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,560
imperial city did not have any
422
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,560
monasteries inside
423
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,920
because it's a it's a space for the
424
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,959
tongue bureaucracy
425
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,519
whereas the new city obviously needed a
426
00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:49,199
buddhist
427
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:50,639
institution or actually multiple
428
00:16:49,199 --> 00:16:53,040
buddhist institutions
429
00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:56,720
and the caribbean monastery was built uh
430
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:59,279
very early on in the new city
431
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,600
certain certain things were moved from
432
00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:05,839
outside the city into the city
433
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,839
so the old town imperial college
434
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:11,280
yen were moved back we were moved into
435
00:17:09,439 --> 00:17:12,319
the song city and became the provincial
436
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,520
level college
437
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:16,160
provincial level school other things
438
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,039
were moved
439
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,160
out of the city uh the old earth altar
440
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:22,720
that was located
441
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,839
in this region in the jin dynasty uh
442
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,360
they were moved out
443
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:28,960
into this uh word where what you know uh
444
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:31,679
eventually became
445
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,440
this region because obviously in a
446
00:17:31,679 --> 00:17:35,760
provincial city you don't need an
447
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,559
earth altar where uh the emperor would
448
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,400
perform
449
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:40,400
a sacrifice
450
00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:47,440
you also have uh interestingly all
451
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:48,559
lots of new discoveries uh around in and
452
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,679
around the city
453
00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:52,720
because the basic fact uh with the
454
00:17:51,679 --> 00:17:54,960
process of
455
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,400
that that accompanied the process of
456
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,960
downsizing is that
457
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,520
a lot of these places that used to be
458
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,440
walled
459
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:06,400
up populated regions of the old changhan
460
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:09,520
right the palaces and impure spaces
461
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:13,520
now they were all just suburbs
462
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:16,559
farmland in many cases because of the
463
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:20,000
lifting up of the imperial uh uh
464
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:23,679
uh uh uh
465
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:26,160
structure a lot of these places uh
466
00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:28,480
were became places that people began to
467
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,120
be able to access and then new
468
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:33,600
stuff new fun really interesting and
469
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:35,520
strange things begin to turn up
470
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,200
so here i'm just going to give you a
471
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,919
selection of the things that i've
472
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,480
i found that that turned up in uh in
473
00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:43,520
chiang mai
474
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:45,760
after the fall of the time so from uh
475
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:48,000
ginger this is uh in the jin dynasty you
476
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,840
have the uh the mirror of the con
477
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,520
uh console young right yang guy face
478
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:55,280
mirror was discovered uh
479
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:57,440
to the east northeast uh of the city
480
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,400
you have uh emperor shenzhon skull
481
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,679
someone collected
482
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,520
it presumably from his tomb but this
483
00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:03,840
would have been very much to the north
484
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,200
uh
485
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:10,559
north uh east uh you have
486
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:12,080
stone pieces of stone strange stones
487
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:15,120
from the imperial park
488
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,840
that once belonged to the empire emperor
489
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,400
that were that made their way into the
490
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,600
market
491
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:24,559
and that were uh began to be collected
492
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,720
you have a box that supposedly held
493
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:29,679
where the the head of hanshin
494
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,160
in this han dynasty uh general was uh
495
00:19:29,679 --> 00:19:34,320
was
496
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:36,840
was uh stored uh that was discovered uh
497
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,000
in this period and this is a story from
498
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,400
genji
499
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,200
the box was empty you don't have the
500
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,480
actual
501
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:47,919
actual thing from from
502
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:51,360
from inside here so this is one
503
00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:54,960
uh process the other process is that
504
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:57,440
uh the the uh the empire also
505
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,160
now the empire the city also became a
506
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,280
bit
507
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:03,360
more militarized meaning that since
508
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,600
the tongues the song city the five
509
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:08,960
dynasties and the song and the gene city
510
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:11,600
are now closer to the border uh
511
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,840
they have to build uh sort of a fortific
512
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,400
fortification structures uh onto the
513
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,640
city
514
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,400
so you know these are very uh detailed
515
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,799
i'm not gonna get into them
516
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,799
now uh but basically you have the tsung
517
00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:26,240
city you there are constructions
518
00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:29,039
uh happening in najin city what's uh
519
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,760
significant was that uh in the uan
520
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:32,799
dynasty
521
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:36,640
in the mongol period another additional
522
00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:39,600
city was built to the northeast
523
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,320
this is where the nomungo prince
524
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,080
stationed
525
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:47,360
on his court and we have
526
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:50,559
a very interesting record about
527
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:52,559
these dual cities in the yuan dynasty
528
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:55,760
from marco polo
529
00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:56,559
who said we talked about this city right
530
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,120
um
531
00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:00,840
quenza fu which is a transliteration of
532
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:02,159
jin jiaofu which was the name of
533
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,039
changhan
534
00:21:02,159 --> 00:21:05,280
this city was previously the capital of
535
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:07,760
an
536
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,760
extensive noble and powerful kingdom
537
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,720
obviously talking about chiang mai
538
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,760
but then this other place was on the
539
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,440
plane
540
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:20,640
about five miles from this city uh where
541
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,600
the king mongalo who was the third son
542
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,799
of kublai
543
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,880
had his uh palace so
544
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:28,159
when we look at this and then compare
545
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,520
this to the
546
00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:33,440
and this place has been uh excavated um
547
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,200
when we compare this to the ming city
548
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,440
it's quite clear because in the mean
549
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,360
city there's also a princess court and
550
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,640
this part would eventually become the
551
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:44,240
mantra city in the
552
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:47,679
in the qing um that uh
553
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:49,919
evidently you know the reason to expand
554
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:51,520
is this it's almost like the mean city
555
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:54,159
absorbed the iran
556
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,120
uh our city from here into the city and
557
00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:57,919
and then that's
558
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:58,400
the reason that it became bigger again
559
00:21:57,919 --> 00:22:01,919
you know
560
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,320
militarization there is a lot to talk
561
00:22:01,919 --> 00:22:05,679
about
562
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:09,039
i i'll just give you the outline
563
00:22:05,679 --> 00:22:12,559
my focus uh though is
564
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:14,240
what exactly happened to how people
565
00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:17,520
viewed the city
566
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,480
as the city is becoming smaller and then
567
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,520
becoming more
568
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,960
militarized and this is uh what i will
569
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,640
talk about
570
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:30,000
in the next section which uh which i'm
571
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,559
sort of uh characterized uh categorizing
572
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,520
uh
573
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:35,120
within the umbrella of cultural change
574
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,480
so again this is the slide that i've
575
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:39,760
shown you already
576
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,440
um these pla these things were
577
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,760
these strange things were being
578
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:47,039
discovered in the new city because
579
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:50,480
all these uh places that used to be
580
00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:51,520
guarded and very well secured uh places
581
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,919
where uh now
582
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,240
uh farmland and suburbs where you know
583
00:22:53,919 --> 00:22:58,799
people can go and dig things up
584
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,880
but these were not the only thing only
585
00:22:58,799 --> 00:23:03,600
people who are doing the collecting
586
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,720
right collecting of uh in many ways you
587
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,960
know in this case
588
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,480
literally the old remnants of the the
589
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,520
tongue empire
590
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,480
there was uh in the uh these were not
591
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,520
the only cases
592
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:19,120
there was in the late 11th century
593
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,240
a concerted effort by a group of
594
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:23,600
connected
595
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:26,880
very well connected uh um literati
596
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:30,000
uh uh scholars uh in collecting
597
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:33,520
various remnants of uh of
598
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:36,720
the old city of changhan and here i
599
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:40,000
list a few of the key works that i see
600
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:42,799
as being part of this collective effort
601
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,520
the uh earliest one is the catalog of
602
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:47,600
ethics uh jiguru by oyang shio
603
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,600
second one is gazetteer chang on by so
604
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,880
means yo and then you have the maps
605
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:56,320
of changhan made by rudolfang uh the
606
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,440
record of student inscriptions uh by
607
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,840
tian gai
608
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,679
uh johnny's journey to the south of the
609
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,200
city it's a travelogue
610
00:24:01,679 --> 00:24:08,000
and then liuda jones a collection of the
611
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,679
forest of steele or bailing collection
612
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:13,919
and then the darlings work
613
00:24:09,679 --> 00:24:16,320
on the antiquity as well
614
00:24:13,919 --> 00:24:17,200
so obviously this is a lot i'm not going
615
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,240
to have time to get
616
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,120
into uh every one of them so i'll just
617
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,039
talk about
618
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:28,240
a few uh uh that i think are the most
619
00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:30,320
important and then focus on one uh
620
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,840
one of these things which is the uh
621
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,320
forest of
622
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,919
collection or the bailing collection one
623
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,799
thing i want to point out
624
00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:39,120
uh now though is that these people all
625
00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:42,320
uh
626
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:45,360
were roughly contemporaries
627
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,120
and uh they uh for the most part um you
628
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:48,799
know with the exception of john lee we
629
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:49,360
don't know too much about him and tian
630
00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:51,760
guy
631
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:52,400
uh these other people were in many ways
632
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,840
connected
633
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,840
i mean the most clear cases
634
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,640
were all they were brothers right there
635
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,559
were four the the four
636
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:06,960
louise of lantian uh along with luda jun
637
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:08,799
they were local people from chiang mai
638
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,400
region they were from london not just to
639
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:12,000
the east of town
640
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,000
all right so now let's look at a few
641
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,360
examples so here is very
642
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,000
famous text uh uh jigoroug catalog of
643
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:21,679
antiques
644
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:24,960
by owen shiel here's a manuscript of
645
00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:27,200
jiguru that is still extended
646
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,360
what i want to talk about is the origin
647
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,960
of this collection so how did owen hill
648
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:33,039
get to
649
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,960
be able to collect all the things that
650
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:38,640
uh that he was able to collect
651
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:41,919
one of the most important origins uh
652
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,400
is this other person named uh leo chang
653
00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:45,440
also
654
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:48,320
you know very important uh uh a scholar
655
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,039
and official at this time you change was
656
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,840
the head
657
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:53,440
of uh the local government which at that
658
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,840
time is called jung jin jun
659
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,120
right he he he was ruling chiang mai at
660
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,159
the time
661
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:03,840
and according to uh uh this uh
662
00:26:00,159 --> 00:26:06,559
note from o yang xio liu chang was
663
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,159
in chiang mai in this region region
664
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:10,720
because of the
665
00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:13,600
abandonment of the old city from
666
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:16,720
deserted foundations to disrupted tombs
667
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:20,720
much were found by farmers and herders
668
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:23,520
and yanfu meaning lyochang consistently
669
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,440
purchased and collected and these are
670
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,960
the things that eventually became
671
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:32,720
uh the uh the the the beginning of
672
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:35,600
oyancho's collection this is one example
673
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,520
of collecting a remnants of the old city
674
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,720
of changhan
675
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,200
but of course remnants don't don't only
676
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,679
come
677
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,039
in uh in material forms you also have
678
00:26:43,679 --> 00:26:47,919
textual remnants
679
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:49,120
uh that were scattered uh after the end
680
00:26:47,919 --> 00:26:51,600
of an empire
681
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:54,720
and this is one example this is the uh
682
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,720
preface to um
683
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,880
no i think this is the uh the tomb
684
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,880
appetite for for some intro
685
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,080
that talks about how he collected uh
686
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,919
stuff when he
687
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:08,400
composed uh the gazetteer of changhan
688
00:27:05,919 --> 00:27:09,039
so it says remnant texts and bygone
689
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,000
events
690
00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:13,840
are all just burst into other accounts
691
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,880
without one who is diligent and
692
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:20,000
thoughtful erudite and eloquent meaning
693
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:24,000
how can we hope to recover what has been
694
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:27,520
lost and and and and recover
695
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:30,080
and and write a complete book so this
696
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,960
effort to recover textual remnants of
697
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,600
chiang mai
698
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,159
uh is very much a goal of uh the gusset
699
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,080
here
700
00:27:34,159 --> 00:27:37,440
and here i'll give you one example to
701
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,720
show you what uh
702
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:43,039
what i mean by that on the left
703
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,279
so th these are as you can see this is
704
00:27:43,039 --> 00:27:48,399
the yang kang fung this is the yankong
705
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:48,960
this is the same word right the word the
706
00:27:48,399 --> 00:27:52,399
world
707
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:56,000
unit that i just talked about this
708
00:27:52,399 --> 00:27:57,919
record is from uh way shoes uh uh
709
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,080
leong jin shinji new records of the two
710
00:27:57,919 --> 00:28:03,440
capitals from the eighth century
711
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,399
so in weshu's record he had he noted two
712
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,480
places
713
00:28:04,399 --> 00:28:09,440
in the yangkong world uh the seeming
714
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:12,880
monastery and the jinfan monastery
715
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:16,080
uh in some intio's record however he
716
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,919
kept with sue's account but he noted
717
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,559
that the seeming monastery used to be
718
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:20,799
yang zhu
719
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:22,799
this is the sway dynasty you know uh
720
00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:25,039
official yang zul's house
721
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:26,559
this is one thing right but he also
722
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:29,360
added all these different
723
00:28:26,559 --> 00:28:30,880
other informations he also said that ian
724
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:33,679
lieben also had his house
725
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,159
in this ward there's a uh pavilion to
726
00:28:33,679 --> 00:28:36,000
the
727
00:28:34,159 --> 00:28:37,279
pond that belonged to marlene and then
728
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,000
there was uh
729
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:40,720
there were uh all these residences of
730
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,000
different
731
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:46,720
princes of the of the dynasty so this
732
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,840
is another example right the third
733
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,360
example is that
734
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:54,159
it is sort of another another way around
735
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,480
that now we only have fragments of this
736
00:28:54,159 --> 00:28:58,559
this
737
00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:01,679
is the map of by
738
00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:04,399
and and now we don't have the whole map
739
00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:04,960
uh uh we only have uh certain fragments
740
00:29:04,399 --> 00:29:08,559
and the
741
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:11,600
these are uh the uh rubbings made of the
742
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:12,000
fragments that are still extend um and
743
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,799
here
744
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,279
is what it looks like when we place it
745
00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:18,480
back
746
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:20,480
onto a onto a map of changhan so
747
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,919
the fragments mostly cover in the north
748
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,600
of the city and then the southern
749
00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:26,480
suburbs
750
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,480
but if you look closely on this map uh
751
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,679
what it's doing is very similar to what
752
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,000
some intel is doing
753
00:29:29,679 --> 00:29:33,360
he is trying to add information uh
754
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,000
within the space
755
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,720
of a ward and in that way i think also
756
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,720
collecting
757
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:43,919
remnants of the whole city but the most
758
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,080
clear or the clearest example of this
759
00:29:43,919 --> 00:29:47,760
activity this kind of activity comes
760
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,840
from the bailing museum
761
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,799
so this is what it looks like many of
762
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,799
you might
763
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:58,080
have been there uh first
764
00:29:54,799 --> 00:30:01,440
forest of inscriptions
765
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:05,840
they just celebrated uh in 2017
766
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:08,159
their 930th anniversary
767
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,200
which means they traced their history to
768
00:30:08,159 --> 00:30:13,679
uh to
769
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:16,159
the year 1087. so why is that
770
00:30:13,679 --> 00:30:17,200
uh in fact the collection of the bailing
771
00:30:16,159 --> 00:30:18,960
uh uh
772
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,200
the the sort of start of the baiting
773
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,799
collection you can you can trace it to
774
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:28,000
a to an even earlier period so here
775
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:30,480
is uh an image of one of the most famous
776
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,520
uh steelys in chinese history right for
777
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,200
anyone who does
778
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,799
uh calligraphy this is something that
779
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,240
you would try to copy and
780
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:41,279
sort of uh imitate the yen family uh uh
781
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:44,240
shrine steali uh the yanshi jamil bay
782
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:46,080
i want to uh this obviously was you know
783
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,399
this was made by the famous yanden ting
784
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,960
and day two uh 780
785
00:30:48,399 --> 00:30:51,679
and here is the there's a rubbing uh
786
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,480
that was
787
00:30:51,679 --> 00:30:56,480
uh uh sort of put on top of this tv but
788
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,000
i want to draw your attention not to the
789
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:02,159
cd the writing of the cd
790
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:04,640
itself but to the small writing here
791
00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:05,679
and i'll zoom in uh to see to show what
792
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,919
i mean so here
793
00:31:05,679 --> 00:31:09,120
is the the small uh color phone or
794
00:31:07,919 --> 00:31:12,559
inscription uh
795
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:15,600
that's uh written in the uh in the uh
796
00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:18,960
10th century and here in part
797
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,360
uh it says that uh the style the writing
798
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,279
of
799
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,799
yunjin ching and the young being both
800
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:25,279
famous calligraphers
801
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:26,880
are are are really uh you know uh
802
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:29,360
exceptionally uh uh
803
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,519
precious and we need to uh and and
804
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:35,120
people treasure them as if they're
805
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:37,600
they're they're pearl and jade but
806
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,480
ever since the disorder of the town
807
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,440
house
808
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,919
this inscription fell in the dirt and
809
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,159
dust
810
00:31:41,919 --> 00:31:48,640
of the suburban and rural areas and and
811
00:31:46,159 --> 00:31:49,519
and and it was the job of this person
812
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,159
and and their
813
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:53,200
you know uh fellow men who then
814
00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:55,279
recollected
815
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,240
this inscription and brought them back
816
00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:59,519
into the uh
817
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:02,240
into the song city so i'm gonna show you
818
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:03,039
what uh this process looked like on the
819
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,240
map
820
00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:07,679
because this shrunk this studio was for
821
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,320
the shrine of the engine
822
00:32:07,679 --> 00:32:10,880
and we know it was in the tonghua ward
823
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,000
so the
824
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:17,039
tidi should still be here
825
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,360
uh in the uh late uh uh pong and early
826
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:19,679
uh
827
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,840
early 10th century in the very soon as
828
00:32:19,679 --> 00:32:21,840
well
829
00:32:22,159 --> 00:32:25,279
this you know if we know the geography
830
00:32:24,399 --> 00:32:27,200
of the
831
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:28,559
city in the tongue you will know that
832
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,600
this is one of the
833
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:33,039
most uh prime locations many many famous
834
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,880
literati lived in
835
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:40,799
tonha work but in the song
836
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:43,120
this became a land of a
837
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:45,360
suburban and rural area where you know
838
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:48,000
an important city would fall into
839
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,360
uh into dirt so what these people did
840
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,399
was that they moved
841
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:56,000
this uh uh this inscription back
842
00:32:52,399 --> 00:32:57,679
into the city uh uh and that
843
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,840
essentially became the beginning of the
844
00:32:57,679 --> 00:33:03,679
bathing collection
845
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:06,799
so i was able to put a a number of
846
00:33:03,679 --> 00:33:07,919
stones that we know that were already in
847
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:10,640
the bathing collection
848
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:11,279
in the northern song and put them back
849
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,480
to
850
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:16,720
where they used to be during the time
851
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,080
and see how this process played out
852
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,720
because this is not the
853
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,600
this was not the only one that that that
854
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,799
underwent
855
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:28,480
such a process of relocation and here
856
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:30,320
are some of the most important ones
857
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,000
i'm not going to talk about them one by
858
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,360
one but uh these
859
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:38,720
were all brought back into the song city
860
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:41,679
uh uh in the song dynasty
861
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,880
by the time of the uh the late 11th
862
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:44,399
century
863
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,360
so you can see that the collection
864
00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:49,519
effort really close you know centered uh
865
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,279
around the north of the city very few
866
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:53,279
stuff are collected from the south of
867
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:55,279
the city which makes sense because it
868
00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:57,840
was a very large city and
869
00:33:55,279 --> 00:34:00,159
you know it would take a lot of effort
870
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,399
to move a large piece of stone from very
871
00:34:00,159 --> 00:34:05,600
far away
872
00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:06,000
we know these collection activities very
873
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,720
well
874
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,359
because of one stone inscription that is
875
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:11,919
now
876
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:13,200
in the bathing collection it's a record
877
00:34:11,919 --> 00:34:16,320
of the newly moved
878
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:20,639
stone classics in the xinjiang in the
879
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:23,679
in in in china uh just to
880
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,320
give you a a taste of what it talks
881
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,960
about
882
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,760
it explains the kind of thing that were
883
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,919
collected
884
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,599
right uh that includes the stone
885
00:34:29,919 --> 00:34:34,639
classics of the kaiju
886
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:36,000
kaichong green this is the largest uh if
887
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:39,200
you go to bailey now
888
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:41,119
in the in the in the first room uh is
889
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,679
uh it's filled with these uh the
890
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:45,919
complete set of stone classics right
891
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:48,399
another important one is the steely of
892
00:34:45,919 --> 00:34:51,200
the classic of failure piety
893
00:34:48,399 --> 00:34:52,800
that was uh uh that was the commentary
894
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,560
by emperor shandong
895
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,399
and then all these writings by the
896
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,200
famous calligraphers
897
00:34:56,399 --> 00:34:59,839
and importantly uh at the end the text
898
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,079
says
899
00:34:59,839 --> 00:35:04,320
these this collection indeed is the
900
00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:06,960
grand spectacle from the old
901
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,160
capital and here you see the image of
902
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,599
the old capital
903
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:14,880
uh emerging um so to
904
00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:16,640
show you how this collection continued
905
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,200
to matter right it was
906
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,640
uh assembled in the song but uh but
907
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,040
continuously in the jin
908
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,880
and then iran in the ming people
909
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,240
continue to engage with
910
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,920
this collection uh i i want to show you
911
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:30,560
i want to just tell you a little story
912
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,520
about
913
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,200
about one of the most important uh stone
914
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,480
in this collection the classic of
915
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:40,359
failure piety
916
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:44,480
uh shitai shelting that was carved in 7
917
00:35:40,359 --> 00:35:47,520
45 that was moved from the imperial
918
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:50,880
college back into the song city in
919
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,720
in the song dynasty so unlike
920
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,119
uh you know if you look at this these
921
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:58,079
stones these are just basically a
922
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:58,960
one piece of stone one narrow piece of
923
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:02,320
stone
924
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:04,480
most cds look like that
925
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,520
this one doesn't look like that this one
926
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,760
is a square
927
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,440
it was made of four pieces stones
928
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,640
because you know you need enough space
929
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,359
to write the entire
930
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,720
xiao ding and the commentary but that
931
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:18,079
means that there is a
932
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:21,920
hole in the middle and during the uh
933
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:24,720
re reparation process in 1973
934
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,480
uh they opened it and realized that
935
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:28,160
there were actually stuff in the middle
936
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,240
it's not just there was a hole there
937
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,880
were people adding stuff in the middle
938
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,359
and this is kind of the structure of the
939
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,400
of the
940
00:36:33,359 --> 00:36:38,560
uh of that steeling so you can see
941
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,680
here you know uh you will have an empty
942
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:43,200
space
943
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:45,920
so what did they find in this uh in this
944
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,119
uh hole in the in the stone in the piece
945
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,320
of stone
946
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:53,839
uh there are georgian
947
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,200
word list this is the manuscript the
948
00:36:53,839 --> 00:36:58,960
georgian word list
949
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:03,119
there's a a a piece of block
950
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:05,680
printed painting but for our purposes
951
00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:08,320
the most important one and perhaps is a
952
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:11,920
very small piece
953
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:15,680
and here is so this on on the on the
954
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:18,000
very uh right
955
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,880
right side this piece is found in the
956
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,920
inside
957
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,320
that's daily and you can see that this
958
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,200
piece
959
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,040
is a rubbing of this line from the yen
960
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:30,640
family shrine
961
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:33,680
inscription so think about this
962
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:36,960
what this implies was that because
963
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:40,480
the yen family shrine and the uh
964
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,200
stone classics and the the philippines
965
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,200
stone
966
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,400
they're in this they were in the same
967
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,400
collection
968
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,839
at this time so this collection because
969
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,000
of the presence of
970
00:37:47,839 --> 00:37:52,000
you know church and uh inscription and
971
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,720
also coins that date to the song and the
972
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,359
jin
973
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,160
period we know that this the stuff that
974
00:37:55,359 --> 00:37:59,200
were stuffed
975
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,720
into the uh uh the inscription
976
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,480
uh they were put there in the jin
977
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:06,240
dynasty
978
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:09,040
right uh so at that time you can imagine
979
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:10,960
that uh this is a later map but you can
980
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:14,240
sort of imagine these stones were
981
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:17,440
closely uh uh uh
982
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:20,400
located closely together this is where
983
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,960
in the uh lei ching the yanshiyama away
984
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:26,240
was uh the yan family shrine was here
985
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:28,160
and then the uh philippi stone is here
986
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:30,400
so you can imagine in the jin dynasty
987
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,240
people made rubbings of this inscription
988
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:36,480
and some for some reason just stuff
989
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:38,240
that stuffed it in the in the stone city
990
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,560
i'm not going to talk about this anymore
991
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:42,400
but also talks about the
992
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,720
continued collection of the stones and
993
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,359
then in the uh
994
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:48,560
dynasty we have the uh gadget here and
995
00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:51,680
as you can see it's
996
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:54,560
uh stated very clearly uh in the uh
997
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,960
in the uh in the uh uh confusion college
998
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,760
uh
999
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,720
temple confucius you have the bailing uh
1000
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:04,560
painted here
1001
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:05,040
so to kind of summarize what i've talked
1002
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,400
about
1003
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,400
uh in this part you have uh write the
1004
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,839
the stone inscription that talks about
1005
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,320
the collection of the
1006
00:39:11,839 --> 00:39:15,440
uh these stones talking about making
1007
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,720
reference to
1008
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:21,839
the old capital right you have
1009
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,560
uh and this is a jin dynasty tome
1010
00:39:21,839 --> 00:39:26,160
appetite
1011
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,160
of a commoner in chiang
1012
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,320
that talks about the fact that changhang
1013
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,960
was the older capital of the joe and jin
1014
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,839
dynasties
1015
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,560
and every household possessed some
1016
00:39:33,839 --> 00:39:36,880
objects
1017
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,520
that were worthy of enjoyment and
1018
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:42,560
consortium
1019
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,560
another example if you look at a uh yuan
1020
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,560
dynasty gazetteer changhan
1021
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,520
lotienshyang also talks about changhan
1022
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:52,320
being the capital since
1023
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,599
western way later dynasties and then
1024
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,680
finally
1025
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:56,720
you have the record of marco polo so
1026
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,920
obviously
1027
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:02,960
the image of chang being the old
1028
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:05,599
capital dominated the cultural
1029
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,960
life and the cultural reproduction uh in
1030
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:10,240
the city at this
1031
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:12,720
during this period of time
1032
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:14,720
but this is perhaps not surprising right
1033
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:17,280
change has been the capital for
1034
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:18,720
as long as anyone could remember now
1035
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,440
it's not capital anymore
1036
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:23,680
so the fact that people seem to remember
1037
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,720
and and talk about and act on the fact
1038
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,000
that it was the
1039
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:29,440
old capital uh uh was probably not very
1040
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,839
surprising
1041
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,800
what is surprising though uh i would
1042
00:40:31,839 --> 00:40:36,800
argue is
1043
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:40,160
exactly what part of the old chang
1044
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:43,359
did people uh appreciate it what
1045
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,760
aspect of the past of this capital did
1046
00:40:43,359 --> 00:40:46,560
people
1047
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,760
in the song through the early mean uh
1048
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,920
focus on
1049
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,960
and that is uh what i will talk about in
1050
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,599
this next
1051
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,680
next section and and i'll start with the
1052
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:58,560
trip to the south of chiang mai
1053
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,119
this is uh written in a travelogue by
1054
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,400
john lee
1055
00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:05,040
uh in 1084.
1056
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,319
it's very substantial text i'm just
1057
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,880
going to talk about
1058
00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:09,440
a few of the things that that he did as
1059
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,640
he
1060
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:16,640
started the journey so here he started
1061
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:19,040
uh from inside the city and then he left
1062
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,160
the city itself and then he passed these
1063
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,640
two awards that
1064
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,440
used to be tongue uh tongue wars and
1065
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,599
then he says
1066
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,040
these two awards still had long markets
1067
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:29,839
but the rest of the area
1068
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,880
uh was basically far farming field so
1069
00:41:29,839 --> 00:41:33,440
confirming
1070
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,400
uh what we talked about uh with regard
1071
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,839
to the yen
1072
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:40,400
family shrines tv and then he kept going
1073
00:41:37,839 --> 00:41:41,680
further cells he observed the little
1074
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,680
goose pagoda
1075
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,839
saying that this is the the this is the
1076
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:49,440
jinfu monastery pagoda
1077
00:41:45,839 --> 00:41:51,839
it was still there he then continued to
1078
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:54,079
travel to the greek goose pagoda what is
1079
00:41:51,839 --> 00:41:54,560
not known as greek goose pagoda is this
1080
00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:57,920
is it's
1081
00:41:54,560 --> 00:42:01,359
a monastery pagoda and uh viewed
1082
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:03,680
colorfunds by tong people right so the
1083
00:42:01,359 --> 00:42:04,960
journey to this place is very much
1084
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,480
connected to
1085
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:10,319
the activity the activity of reviewing
1086
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,720
reviewing and recovering tongue
1087
00:42:10,319 --> 00:42:16,319
literally legacy
1088
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:19,440
and then he ascended the uh the pagoda
1089
00:42:16,319 --> 00:42:20,960
it's supposedly still still uh
1090
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,440
that's still something that you could do
1091
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,680
at this time and then he looked at the
1092
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,920
area of twisting rivers he said on the
1093
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,319
pagoda we observed the palaces
1094
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,280
and gardens of the twisting river a
1095
00:42:30,319 --> 00:42:34,240
place of past
1096
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,119
pleasure and amusement now there are
1097
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:38,560
merely
1098
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:39,200
wild weeds this pleasure and amusement
1099
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,280
obviously
1100
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:46,400
belonged to the successful
1101
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:49,760
examinees who passed the ginger ginger
1102
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:53,599
uh chinese exams
1103
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:57,599
so i took uh a photo when i
1104
00:42:53,599 --> 00:43:00,640
climbed onto the on top of the monastery
1105
00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:03,599
and this is looking at the uh the region
1106
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,240
now uh that that jungle looked at now
1107
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:06,160
you can see
1108
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:07,520
in the distance there's a pond right the
1109
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,599
pond was restored
1110
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,079
so now you can almost still see see the
1111
00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:14,240
pond that people saw in the tongue
1112
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:15,760
uh so the jungle jungle what johnny saw
1113
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:19,040
was a
1114
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:21,839
uh uh interweaving uh dry
1115
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,480
area of this this uh this region a dry
1116
00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:24,800
era
1117
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,520
of this region uh if you will and here
1118
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,760
is the
1119
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,960
another image you can see treyang the
1120
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:33,119
twisting river
1121
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:36,400
and this is the uh uh monastery
1122
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:39,520
so what does this trip tell us
1123
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:42,240
then if we put it back
1124
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,920
to this you know very very messy map i'm
1125
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:47,200
sorry for that um
1126
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:50,240
uh what is clear is that
1127
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:52,960
jungle interest was was not
1128
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:53,599
uh uh germany was not interested in
1129
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,720
visiting
1130
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:58,880
the palaces and the uh the imperial park
1131
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:01,440
right so johnny's interest is different
1132
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,440
from victor
1133
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,040
johnny also didn't go to the west of the
1134
00:44:03,359 --> 00:44:06,960
city and visit the
1135
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,599
the western market didn't try to seek
1136
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:12,160
out the remnants of these uh
1137
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:13,119
old central asian sites of central asian
1138
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,599
people
1139
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:17,599
so his interest was also different from
1140
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:21,200
that of
1141
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:24,319
edward schafer what he did
1142
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,880
almost a very perfectly mapped
1143
00:44:24,319 --> 00:44:27,920
onto uh what scholars like linda phone
1144
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,960
talks about
1145
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,680
uh with regard to the literary culture
1146
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,960
the the activities of the uh gene sheer
1147
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,920
examinees
1148
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:41,040
uh and who were active in the south
1149
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:44,480
eastern part of the city
1150
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:47,040
and john lee's case was not exceptional
1151
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,640
in fact we have a lot of a lot more
1152
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,680
examples to show that
1153
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:54,800
really this area was during the song
1154
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,760
through the gran and ming dynasties the
1155
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,240
area that
1156
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,960
most people lived outside of the city
1157
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:01,040
that is
1158
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,000
and that most people were interested
1159
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,400
yeah
1160
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,599
i'll just very quickly give you a few
1161
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,920
examples
1162
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:08,720
this is a run dynasty uh stone
1163
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,880
inscription
1164
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:16,560
also no jin dynasty
1165
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:20,480
uh sorry stone inscription that is now
1166
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:22,800
in the uh in the uh uh
1167
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,720
bailing uh collection i'm just gonna
1168
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,880
read the first two lines
1169
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:29,200
uh it talks about the old foundations
1170
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,599
remain as they mentioned
1171
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,599
uh this is the famous uh you know
1172
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:36,319
mention of the mutual illumination of
1173
00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:40,160
the flower paddles and sea balls
1174
00:45:36,319 --> 00:45:41,520
the huawei holo and this mansion has
1175
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,400
already collapsed
1176
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,240
right we only have old foundations but
1177
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:50,480
visitors can still read
1178
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:53,599
the stele that were spared by the fire
1179
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:56,560
so where are they doing it this is
1180
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:59,040
in the uh xinjing palace that eventually
1181
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,720
turned into their dragon pond
1182
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,400
it was known as the dragon pawn or
1183
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:04,560
longshore at this time
1184
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,240
and so people were going there and this
1185
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,839
is also a place where
1186
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:10,319
a lot of the uh if you look at the
1187
00:46:07,839 --> 00:46:12,720
tongue you know tongue poets
1188
00:46:10,319 --> 00:46:14,000
many people have written uh poems uh
1189
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:17,520
when they were attending
1190
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:21,200
a banquet in the xinjing palace
1191
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:24,560
so this area was also of great interest
1192
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:27,040
in fact we have a record from the yuan
1193
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:29,520
dynasty gazetteer that talks about
1194
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,400
uh this particular guy zhang jin is
1195
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,920
constructing
1196
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:36,880
a new structure near in in this region
1197
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,839
that became a new touristy uh attraction
1198
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,319
that people
1199
00:46:37,839 --> 00:46:41,119
uh on the third of the third month right
1200
00:46:40,319 --> 00:46:43,119
chancellor
1201
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:45,920
and the ninth and nice month chongzio
1202
00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:48,720
would go there and and celebrate
1203
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,319
so here obviously you can see that uh
1204
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:52,560
people were going to the
1205
00:46:50,319 --> 00:46:55,040
east of the city uh when they have to
1206
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:57,359
travel outside the city
1207
00:46:55,040 --> 00:47:00,000
uh you also have other examples this is
1208
00:46:57,359 --> 00:47:00,319
a jin dynasty inscription on the back
1209
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,280
side
1210
00:47:00,319 --> 00:47:04,720
you have the list of the people who are
1211
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:08,640
engaged in some
1212
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:11,440
form of imitation of the entire the
1213
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,480
pagoda uh celebration of the tang uh
1214
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,920
literary
1215
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,920
uh tongue examination
1216
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:22,640
takers and going back to johnny's record
1217
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,800
uh he talks about how the gentleman and
1218
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:28,400
commoners of changhan every spring
1219
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,280
would swarm the road to visit the uh uh
1220
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,480
the sunset
1221
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:34,400
the great goose pagoda
1222
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,760
so what we have here is that you have
1223
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,960
the city right but
1224
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:41,760
it's what seems to interest people
1225
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,960
uh uh after the fall of the town all
1226
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:46,079
said the city
1227
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:48,720
uh seems to have clustered in the uh
1228
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:50,079
east and south uh of the city uh the
1229
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:54,319
southeastern region
1230
00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:57,440
of the city and these are not the only
1231
00:47:54,319 --> 00:47:57,839
examples in fact when we look at how
1232
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,200
people
1233
00:47:57,839 --> 00:48:03,839
talk about the city uh in this era
1234
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:06,079
uh we see many many more examples that
1235
00:48:03,839 --> 00:48:08,559
that proves this point
1236
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:10,480
uh so uh i'll just give you a selection
1237
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:13,200
of different genres of text
1238
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,520
right uh when jim was a poem talks about
1239
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:18,960
his journey to the south of the city and
1240
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:21,119
you can see the twisting river africa
1241
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,319
apricot garden the shin grains also in
1242
00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:25,359
the region
1243
00:48:22,319 --> 00:48:27,920
uh in gaza here is the gazetteers
1244
00:48:25,359 --> 00:48:29,119
uh lua tension also talks about if i
1245
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,160
travel far
1246
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:33,839
i will go to van trun and weichu so
1247
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,400
these are all places these are the
1248
00:48:33,839 --> 00:48:37,359
villas
1249
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,760
that the tom detroit had uh outside of
1250
00:48:37,359 --> 00:48:40,400
the
1251
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:42,480
town city so outside the map that i've
1252
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:45,520
showed you but in the south
1253
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,520
uh but if if i travel closer to the city
1254
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,559
i'll go to the goose pagoda and the
1255
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:52,319
dragon palm
1256
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:54,880
the two places that i just talked about
1257
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:55,599
in the ming dynasty we have another
1258
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,720
journey
1259
00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:59,359
travel log to the south of the city same
1260
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:02,720
title
1261
00:48:59,359 --> 00:49:03,599
essentially replicating uh john lee's
1262
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:05,599
journey
1263
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:07,440
and and therefore covering pretty much
1264
00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:10,160
the same sites
1265
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,760
the result of this overwhelming interest
1266
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:15,520
is that uh by the qing
1267
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:18,960
by the time we have these uh sort of
1268
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:22,240
uh almost lists of the uh uh you know uh
1269
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:24,800
hits hit hit sites of the
1270
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:26,720
uh of a place like chang on charging
1271
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:30,000
like 12 scenes of chiang man
1272
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:32,720
uh uh acings if we look at what
1273
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:34,240
was included in the tongan charity in
1274
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:37,040
the 12 scenes
1275
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:38,079
among the nice scenes that were near the
1276
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,079
city of chiang mai
1277
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:41,119
itself there's some that were really far
1278
00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:43,599
away
1279
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:46,480
eight of them are located in the south
1280
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:48,960
and southeast of the city
1281
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,520
among the eight scenes of guangzhou
1282
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,400
there are two
1283
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:54,720
scenes uh that are close to changhan the
1284
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:57,839
twisting river and the goose pagoda
1285
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:58,559
again both in this region so this is
1286
00:49:57,839 --> 00:50:01,119
sort of the
1287
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:02,640
uh the conclusion that i'm drawing this
1288
00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:05,599
is the most populous and
1289
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:08,800
culturally most vibrant uh region of the
1290
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:08,800
city in this period
1291
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,359
what does this mean right this is what
1292
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:16,240
the literatures for doing
1293
00:50:13,359 --> 00:50:16,960
you know you might ask who cares maybe
1294
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,839
what they do
1295
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,440
i really have no impact on urban
1296
00:50:19,839 --> 00:50:23,599
structure anyway
1297
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,240
but remember i talked about how the city
1298
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:29,200
of doming expanded to the east and the
1299
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:29,920
north we can understand why there was
1300
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,640
the need
1301
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,960
to expand because it has to house the uh
1302
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,800
the
1303
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:40,160
the the court of the ming uh prince
1304
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:43,040
but the direction of expansion
1305
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,520
hasn't really been talked about too much
1306
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,800
and
1307
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:49,599
i will argue that the interest in this
1308
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,880
region of the city has everything to do
1309
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:54,160
with how the city
1310
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:56,160
would continue to expand and here is
1311
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,640
what i mean
1312
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,079
in the tongue dynasty going back to the
1313
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,640
tongue a little bit
1314
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:04,960
the imperial palace has three southern
1315
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,960
gates
1316
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,040
very early on the juju again the main
1317
00:51:07,839 --> 00:51:11,040
gate was closed
1318
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,359
right in the uh in the early uh 10th
1319
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:16,079
century because the trujillo gate
1320
00:51:13,359 --> 00:51:18,880
connects to the route to a boulevard
1321
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:21,599
it's about a hundred meters wide
1322
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,680
clearly too much for a provincial city
1323
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:26,640
so that was closed them
1324
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:28,640
a key moment for the history of the
1325
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,880
urban change in china came
1326
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,319
in the yuan dynasty when the han guang
1327
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:35,599
was also closed
1328
00:51:32,319 --> 00:51:38,880
so obviously i mean at least that's
1329
00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:42,720
you know uh my interpretation is that as
1330
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:45,839
the yuan uh uh palace of the the prince
1331
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:48,160
moved uh here the administration of the
1332
00:51:45,839 --> 00:51:50,720
city you know you probably don't have as
1333
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,920
many uh personnel so they made the
1334
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:54,559
decision to close
1335
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,400
one city on the southern wall and they
1336
00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:56,880
made the decision to close this one in
1337
00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:00,000
fact
1338
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:01,040
the hangwanker has been uh excavated and
1339
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,440
people see
1340
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,079
the traces of feeling from the yuan
1341
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,839
dynasty
1342
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:10,480
that presumably was part of that effort
1343
00:52:07,839 --> 00:52:10,960
so why did they choose to close this
1344
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,200
city
1345
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,760
and not this one this gate and not this
1346
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:18,880
one right not on shanghai
1347
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:21,839
i would argue that if you imagine the
1348
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:24,079
cultural landscape then this is the most
1349
00:52:21,839 --> 00:52:27,440
culturally populous uh culturally
1350
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:30,000
a vibrant and most populous region and
1351
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:32,800
all these trouble all these residents
1352
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,280
and travelers talks about constantly how
1353
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:38,480
they
1354
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:38,480
go out the city and visit these sites
1355
00:52:39,119 --> 00:52:45,920
in this context it's not hard to uh
1356
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:47,280
to understand why if we they were to
1357
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,920
close one city
1358
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,040
uh they would decide to close this one
1359
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,119
and not this one
1360
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,200
because otherwise people had to travel
1361
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:57,200
all the way through the hanguan city
1362
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,359
to uh to these sites it just doesn't
1363
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,680
make a whole lot of sense
1364
00:52:59,359 --> 00:53:02,400
and this decision becomes important
1365
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:05,119
because
1366
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:08,160
what the ming dynasty what happened in
1367
00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:08,160
the ming city is that
1368
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:12,800
well i'll show you that the map eye here
1369
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,160
right this is a map of the city in the
1370
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:17,040
run dynasty
1371
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,240
after the closure of the city obviously
1372
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,440
what you can see here
1373
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:24,640
is that this the the the road in the
1374
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:27,119
city was not symmetrical anymore
1375
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:29,119
the southern city is uh slanted right
1376
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:32,240
it's uh it's uh to the east
1377
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:35,680
um so what happened in the mean was that
1378
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:38,800
the city expanded again to re-center
1379
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,760
uh the ancient gate so now the ancient
1380
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,280
gate is
1381
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:46,319
again uh in the center uh actual
1382
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:49,359
uh axis of the city so this is
1383
00:53:46,319 --> 00:53:52,559
uh uh i would argue a
1384
00:53:49,359 --> 00:53:53,200
way in which the appreciation of these
1385
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:56,400
sites
1386
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:57,040
became important because they apparently
1387
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,160
did
1388
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,280
have an impact on how the city actually
1389
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,319
looked like
1390
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:06,640
and another uh example why uh this
1391
00:54:04,319 --> 00:54:08,079
interest in the southeast of the city
1392
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,359
was important
1393
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:13,359
is that these two pagodas the little
1394
00:54:11,359 --> 00:54:13,920
goose pagoda the greek goose pagoda
1395
00:54:13,359 --> 00:54:15,599
where
1396
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,839
all these people continue to travel
1397
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:21,040
continue to write about and continue to
1398
00:54:17,839 --> 00:54:24,240
also repair are the only two places that
1399
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:25,599
are still uh standing that are uh above
1400
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:27,520
one structure
1401
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:29,440
in the city that we can date to the
1402
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:32,559
tongue all the other
1403
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:36,079
famous stupas and and uh monasteries
1404
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:39,599
they were all uh uh they're all gone
1405
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:41,839
so why do we only have these two places
1406
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:43,599
i would argue it also had everything to
1407
00:54:41,839 --> 00:54:46,079
do with the overwhelming interest
1408
00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:47,520
in this region uh from the song through
1409
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:50,720
the main
1410
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:53,440
so finally i want to talk a bit about
1411
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:53,839
why i think these stories matter right
1412
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,760
uh
1413
00:54:53,839 --> 00:54:57,680
you know this is talking about chiang
1414
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,200
after the tang you know who cares about
1415
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,640
what happened to the city it's not the
1416
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,559
capital anymore
1417
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,920
uh i would argue that it is important
1418
00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:06,079
because uh
1419
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,839
there are a number of things a number of
1420
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:10,160
lessons that it can teach us
1421
00:55:07,839 --> 00:55:11,760
the first lesson is that going back to
1422
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:15,280
the list of works
1423
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:16,319
about the collecting of uh remnants of
1424
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:21,520
chang
1425
00:55:16,319 --> 00:55:24,559
these works were very often the first
1426
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,599
of the kind first uh work in that
1427
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:28,079
rounder
1428
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:29,280
that we have maybe is not the first
1429
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:31,119
first but
1430
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:33,200
very often it's the first one that we
1431
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:34,799
have right uh
1432
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,400
you know scholars of the song very
1433
00:55:34,799 --> 00:55:39,000
familiar with this
1434
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,280
you know these first very early uh uh
1435
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,280
anti-catalogues
1436
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,720
gazetteer of changan is also the
1437
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:48,000
earliest extent
1438
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:51,119
gathered here we have uh first uh
1439
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:54,799
earliest uh you know uh city
1440
00:55:51,119 --> 00:55:56,400
map that's carved on on on a uh on this
1441
00:55:54,799 --> 00:55:59,359
piece of stone
1442
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:01,040
possibly the first museum uh in the
1443
00:55:59,359 --> 00:56:04,319
fading collection
1444
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,960
and then the first uh uh locally based
1445
00:56:04,319 --> 00:56:07,920
collection and this is i need to do a
1446
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:12,799
bit more research
1447
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:16,160
um so what i'm seeing here is that the
1448
00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:19,440
uh the loss of the
1449
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:23,040
status of the capital and the
1450
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:26,160
fundamentally uh disrupting effect
1451
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:30,559
that had uh in chiang
1452
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:32,799
had the further impact of of uh
1453
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:35,040
motivating people to write and think
1454
00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:37,440
about city and about the past
1455
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,559
in very new ways and these are the
1456
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:42,880
innovations that
1457
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:45,200
uh that this process uh uh inspired
1458
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:48,000
another thing uh this is a very simple
1459
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,000
uh point
1460
00:56:48,079 --> 00:56:51,280
this change persisted through the five
1461
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,839
dynasties
1462
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:55,200
in the northern zone the gene uh the
1463
00:56:53,839 --> 00:56:57,760
iran and the main
1464
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,920
these dynasties you know in other
1465
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,880
different ways we will see them as being
1466
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,799
very different
1467
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,640
but in this way they seem to have been
1468
00:57:02,799 --> 00:57:07,520
quite consistent so so
1469
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:09,599
is there a lesson there for us to think
1470
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:12,880
about
1471
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:15,760
another lesson is that most scholarship
1472
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,079
on this uh in this period uh right in
1473
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,640
the
1474
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:19,839
uh uh from the middle period to the late
1475
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,559
imperial period
1476
00:57:19,839 --> 00:57:23,839
in the field of chinese urban history uh
1477
00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:26,960
focus on the
1478
00:57:23,839 --> 00:57:29,680
the more prosperous more populated
1479
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,440
south most of the works they're
1480
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:34,400
obviously exceptions
1481
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:36,079
that that we have are about the southern
1482
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:39,200
cities like yangzhou
1483
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:43,599
hangzhou suzhou shanghai
1484
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:47,040
and wu chang and and so on so
1485
00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:47,680
by providing a a study of the city in
1486
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:51,119
the north
1487
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,680
hopefully we will have a a more complete
1488
00:57:51,119 --> 00:57:55,040
picture
1489
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:56,000
of the urban history of china in this
1490
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,920
period
1491
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,680
and then finally the last point i know i
1492
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:04,400
talked a bit too long
1493
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:07,839
uh i think this experience of the song
1494
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:10,799
people ex sort of appreciating the city
1495
00:58:07,839 --> 00:58:13,440
of the southeast part of the city more
1496
00:58:10,799 --> 00:58:17,119
than any other part of the city
1497
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:20,319
is would be put in a very sharp
1498
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:24,400
light if we compare it to how people
1499
00:58:20,319 --> 00:58:27,119
now view the city and here i
1500
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,920
present you the imperial uh city
1501
00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:30,160
renaissance
1502
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,240
project that started in the city of
1503
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:34,240
xi'an from
1504
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:36,480
2005. if you go now there
1505
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:38,640
you know new buildings uh new
1506
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,760
constructions on the tongue sites uh
1507
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:42,880
that you can see
1508
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:45,680
uh in many places they built a
1509
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:47,680
statue of the celebrating the the height
1510
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:50,960
of the cairo array with these
1511
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:54,240
uh uh images that signified
1512
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:57,119
uh foreign uh presence right the idea of
1513
00:58:54,240 --> 00:59:00,799
the cultural uh diversity of the city
1514
00:58:57,119 --> 00:59:03,359
and which is even clearer in this statue
1515
00:59:00,799 --> 00:59:04,079
that uh depicts travelers on the silk
1516
00:59:03,359 --> 00:59:06,880
road
1517
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:08,960
that was strategically placed near the
1518
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:11,760
kyung gate which is the western
1519
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,160
northwestern gate of the city obviously
1520
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,960
that
1521
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:17,440
connects to the silk road you also have
1522
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:20,240
the reconstruction of the front gate of
1523
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:22,400
the diamond palace this is the true trip
1524
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,599
uh uh no this is not the truth yet this
1525
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,880
is the drill to again this is the
1526
00:59:23,599 --> 00:59:28,000
dunform gate
1527
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:30,799
um and then you have the
1528
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:32,319
very fantastical reconstruction of i
1529
00:59:30,799 --> 00:59:35,520
don't even know which part of
1530
00:59:32,319 --> 00:59:38,640
this uh was supposed to uh to
1531
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:41,760
to replicate but part of the west
1532
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:44,960
market of the town so
1533
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:48,400
it's quite clear from this image
1534
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:49,440
that as much as you know places like tri
1535
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,799
down was still
1536
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:55,280
uh uh celebrated the current
1537
00:59:52,799 --> 00:59:57,520
government of chiang mai of xi'an and
1538
00:59:55,280 --> 01:00:00,319
the president of xi'an and really
1539
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:02,880
people in china now are very interested
1540
01:00:00,319 --> 01:00:06,240
in celebrating the history of the city
1541
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,960
uh and it in particular the imperial
1542
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:10,400
aspect
1543
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:11,040
of its history and the multicultural
1544
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,720
aspect
1545
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:18,319
of its history and this posed a
1546
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:20,640
very uh a clear contrast to
1547
01:00:18,319 --> 01:00:21,520
how the song people view the city so now
1548
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,559
i have the
1549
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:27,040
final quote from for this talk
1550
01:00:24,559 --> 01:00:28,319
uh this is from the preface to
1551
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,559
changanjir
1552
01:00:28,319 --> 01:00:31,920
right so this is uh chao yen road
1553
01:00:30,559 --> 01:00:35,040
looking at the same place
1554
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,520
looking at the the ruins of the the damn
1555
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:40,559
phone
1556
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:40,559
uh not the damn the dang phone game
1557
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:45,119
modern xi'an government decided to
1558
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,480
rebuild it like this
1559
01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:50,240
very magnificent structure how did the
1560
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:52,559
sun people feel about it well how did
1561
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:54,799
this song person feel about it
1562
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:56,000
he said that if we look at these sites
1563
01:00:54,799 --> 01:00:59,680
they're indeed very
1564
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,240
grand but if we examine the joe dynasty
1565
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,040
site
1566
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:04,480
they were uniquely uh simple very they
1567
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:07,760
uniquely honor
1568
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:10,079
simple simplicity and frugality
1569
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,119
and never boasts about the strategic
1570
01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:14,559
significance
1571
01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:15,520
and economic prosperity and here is the
1572
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:19,440
striking
1573
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:21,680
striking word the traces like the tongue
1574
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,040
of the han and the tongue like the
1575
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:27,440
danfung gate
1576
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:30,240
are this uh just feel really shameful
1577
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:32,559
where is the glory in celebrating uh
1578
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:35,119
places like that
1579
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:36,400
obviously this is not how people feel uh
1580
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:39,119
now
1581
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,839
so to conclude uh what i've talked about
1582
01:01:39,119 --> 01:01:41,839
is that
1583
01:01:39,839 --> 01:01:43,280
after the fall of the tongue the city of
1584
01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:45,920
chiang mai became smaller
1585
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,720
and more militarized and at the same
1586
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,119
time
1587
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:50,400
uh there was an intense interest in
1588
01:01:49,119 --> 01:01:53,839
china's past
1589
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:54,720
that were manifested in various acts of
1590
01:01:53,839 --> 01:01:57,119
collecting
1591
01:01:54,720 --> 01:02:00,799
uh resulting in the creation of an image
1592
01:01:57,119 --> 01:02:04,079
of chiang man as the capital of the past
1593
01:02:00,799 --> 01:02:06,960
but people at this time were not
1594
01:02:04,079 --> 01:02:07,920
interested in all aspects of the old
1595
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,760
capital
1596
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,280
in particular they were interested in
1597
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:14,240
the cultural sites in the
1598
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:15,440
southeastern suburbs of the city which
1599
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,520
represented a
1600
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:19,200
testic rejection of the sites that
1601
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:22,000
signified imperial power
1602
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,440
and cosmopolitanism in the in the north
1603
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:26,400
and the west of the city
1604
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:27,920
and then finally this way of approaching
1605
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,760
the capital of the past
1606
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,119
uh seems to have persisted through the
1607
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:34,160
iran and the uh
1608
01:02:31,119 --> 01:02:36,640
through uh through uh dynasties such as
1609
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,920
song and jin and the iran and the ming
1610
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,720
but it poses
1611
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:42,480
a stark contrast to how contemporary
1612
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:46,079
urban planners
1613
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:49,520
and residents of xi'an and of china
1614
01:02:46,079 --> 01:02:51,520
saw its past thank you very much
1615
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:53,680
this is a friend that i found when i was
1616
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:56,480
doing research in the building museum
1617
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:58,480
two day two years ago i'm really looking
1618
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:01,599
forward to uh going back
1619
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:05,680
uh soon and i also look forward uh
1620
01:03:01,599 --> 01:03:05,680
to your questions
1621
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:11,440
thank you so much um
1622
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,480
i and i hope you could meet your cat
1623
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,200
friend soon
1624
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:16,079
as well and thank you i feel so
1625
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,960
privileged to
1626
01:03:16,079 --> 01:03:20,880
be in the audience uh and and hear the
1627
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,640
newest thoughts and directions that
1628
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:25,760
you're taking the project to
1629
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:28,880
and i'm very happy to um so
1630
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:30,640
uh to be part of the conversation and so
1631
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,680
before i read out the first question
1632
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,640
that we already have
1633
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:35,599
on the q and a panel um if you have
1634
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,799
questions
1635
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:42,640
comments please paste it on
1636
01:03:38,799 --> 01:03:44,559
copy and paste on the q a panel so that
1637
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,079
we'll read it out and then winshin could
1638
01:03:44,559 --> 01:03:50,160
answer it um
1639
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:52,079
in the following session so um
1640
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,520
i have uh that's the first question i
1641
01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:57,039
have uh coming from
1642
01:03:53,520 --> 01:04:00,160
daniel boran gasser and uh
1643
01:03:57,039 --> 01:04:02,240
i apologize if i mispronounce uh any of
1644
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,960
your names uh please correct me
1645
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:06,799
but from daniel uh fascinating talk i'm
1646
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,280
curious if you can say a little more
1647
01:04:06,799 --> 01:04:09,839
about
1648
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:11,200
policies regarding the locations of
1649
01:04:09,839 --> 01:04:13,920
buddhist temples
1650
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:16,079
in and around the town city and how
1651
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,559
policies may have changed over time or
1652
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:19,119
how the
1653
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:20,799
relocation of the capital affected the
1654
01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:23,839
development
1655
01:04:20,799 --> 01:04:27,839
expansions contractions or relocations
1656
01:04:23,839 --> 01:04:27,839
of major religious institutions
1657
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:32,000
uh just to one one thing i just want to
1658
01:04:30,799 --> 01:04:33,760
mention is that i think there are
1659
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,000
questions in the chat box too
1660
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:37,119
so uh people are doing doing things in
1661
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:40,480
both spaces
1662
01:04:37,119 --> 01:04:41,920
uh thank you for the question uh so i
1663
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,480
give you one example of the
1664
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,200
uh it's up establishment of the cairo
1665
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,079
monastery
1666
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:49,440
uh in uh within the city uh in fact we
1667
01:04:48,079 --> 01:04:51,119
know about this
1668
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,880
in well we know about this from the song
1669
01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:55,520
record but we also know about this
1670
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:58,960
because there is a steely that was made
1671
01:04:55,520 --> 01:05:02,640
for the uh construction of the
1672
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:03,119
the the the uh the the the monastery
1673
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,480
that
1674
01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:09,760
were copied and uh either
1675
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:11,599
copied in huang or or copied in chiang
1676
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:13,760
and then
1677
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:15,440
uh sort of moved to dunghwan but but in
1678
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:19,520
dunghan we actually have a
1679
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:22,960
a a document about this process uh but
1680
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:26,400
broadly speaking yes it's mostly just
1681
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:28,640
uh um contraction
1682
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,520
right if you think about how many
1683
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,240
monasteries
1684
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:34,079
were there in chiang mai even after so
1685
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:37,119
after the huichong
1686
01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:39,760
persecution uh obviously there were uh
1687
01:05:37,119 --> 01:05:40,160
you know widescale persecution a lot of
1688
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,880
the
1689
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:44,799
monasteries were ordered to uh be closed
1690
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,160
but after that very quickly there was a
1691
01:05:44,799 --> 01:05:48,240
revival in their work
1692
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,359
still a substantial number of uh
1693
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:52,799
inscriptions
1694
01:05:49,359 --> 01:05:53,760
of monasteries in fact some of the
1695
01:05:52,799 --> 01:05:56,880
inscriptions
1696
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:59,119
that i've shown you in the slide were
1697
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:03,280
collected
1698
01:05:59,119 --> 01:06:06,319
from the uh from these monasteries
1699
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:09,440
i i i maybe i can sort of
1700
01:06:06,319 --> 01:06:10,960
share the screen again just to show you
1701
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:14,079
what i mean
1702
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:16,160
right so here these are steely uh
1703
01:06:14,079 --> 01:06:17,680
the uh the the doorbell have a and then
1704
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:20,960
the true gin changer bit so
1705
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:21,760
this these were likely collected from
1706
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:25,280
the monastery
1707
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:27,599
right uh so so so so was this
1708
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:28,720
uh the uh these sort of buddhist
1709
01:06:27,599 --> 01:06:31,280
buddhist theories
1710
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:32,000
uh so what that means is that these
1711
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:35,200
monasteries
1712
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:38,640
themselves were probably not operating
1713
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:40,960
anymore again you know we had to
1714
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,240
think about how big the space was it's
1715
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,400
very far
1716
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,760
uh if you're if most people were living
1717
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:48,720
in the city there was no
1718
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:50,240
reason to uh to have monasteries outside
1719
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:53,440
so most of these uh
1720
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:57,440
monasteries were abandoned but then
1721
01:06:53,440 --> 01:07:00,160
the the the the um
1722
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:01,200
the ones that i talked about that
1723
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,640
accompanied
1724
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,359
the the great goose pagoda right uh the
1725
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,160
census
1726
01:07:05,359 --> 01:07:09,760
and then the uh the the uh small goose
1727
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,720
pagoda they were uh
1728
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:14,000
kept uh and then one final point is that
1729
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:16,799
new monasteries were built
1730
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:18,720
in the city uh in the song we know from
1731
01:07:16,799 --> 01:07:19,680
various sources there are probably four
1732
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:22,480
or five
1733
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:23,760
uh new monasteries that uh that were uh
1734
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:26,400
that were built
1735
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:28,960
and some of them the cayuns you know
1736
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:30,640
there's a later uh text that falsely
1737
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:33,280
claimed that the caveans
1738
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:34,400
uh traces history back to the tongue it
1739
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:37,039
really doesn't
1740
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,400
um these new monasteries have very
1741
01:07:37,039 --> 01:07:41,119
little to do with the old town
1742
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:43,680
monasteries
1743
01:07:41,119 --> 01:07:45,280
yeah there are a lot to talk about i i i
1744
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:48,880
want to keep the
1745
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:50,640
answers like relatively uh short
1746
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,920
yes thank you we do have a lot of
1747
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:53,920
questions coming up
1748
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,960
so our second question here from the
1749
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,440
chat box from
1750
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:58,559
paris mainly one of our colleagues here
1751
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:01,200
at ucla
1752
01:07:58,559 --> 01:08:02,799
he asked the most wars palace
1753
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,039
foundations of the western han
1754
01:08:02,799 --> 01:08:08,400
chiang an were still visible on the
1755
01:08:05,039 --> 01:08:10,640
northwestern corner of the tang chang
1756
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:14,160
and any song yeah mean antiquarian
1757
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:16,319
interest on the ruins of han royal city
1758
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,600
yeah this is a great question i i'm
1759
01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:21,440
actually
1760
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:24,799
um this is a interesting story that i
1761
01:08:21,440 --> 01:08:27,839
that i always like to bring up uh the
1762
01:08:24,799 --> 01:08:31,279
the relationship between uh the city
1763
01:08:27,839 --> 01:08:35,520
again i think i i i will show
1764
01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:39,600
a map to kind of explain what that means
1765
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:43,279
uh share screen again
1766
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:47,040
um so here
1767
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:47,759
this is what uh i have a few additional
1768
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,920
slides
1769
01:08:47,759 --> 01:08:51,600
this is what the city looks like right
1770
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:53,920
the structure right i talked
1771
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:56,239
mostly about the tang city of course the
1772
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:59,839
han dynasty china is just to the north
1773
01:08:56,239 --> 01:09:03,120
uh north east and northwest um
1774
01:08:59,839 --> 01:09:05,920
in the tongue it was like like
1775
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:07,040
uh uh like like you said uh in the
1776
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,759
tongue it was
1777
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:10,560
uh still visible in fact uh it was
1778
01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:13,120
because it was
1779
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:14,400
uh sort of enclosed within the tang
1780
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,799
imperial park
1781
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:18,319
uh there were actually new constructions
1782
01:09:16,799 --> 01:09:21,279
the way young palace was
1783
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:21,679
rebuilt in the town for a little bit so
1784
01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:24,080
the
1785
01:09:21,679 --> 01:09:25,600
emperor would go uh see them but of
1786
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:28,960
course this region was
1787
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:31,679
uh was uh not open to uh other people
1788
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,400
right normal normal residents would not
1789
01:09:31,679 --> 01:09:35,759
be able to
1790
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:39,440
visit the khan city
1791
01:09:35,759 --> 01:09:42,960
what happened in the song is clearly
1792
01:09:39,440 --> 01:09:46,000
that things that once were buried
1793
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:48,560
in the han city were coming out
1794
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:50,880
why do you have a box that supposedly
1795
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:54,719
has the head of hanshin
1796
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:57,280
uh and and and so the hun
1797
01:09:54,719 --> 01:09:58,880
structure because of the removal of the
1798
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:04,239
tongue structure
1799
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:04,239
uh was in a way uh reactivated
1800
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:08,960
and this is a very interesting story
1801
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:11,040
that i'm i'm i'm super fascinated by it
1802
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,239
i was just talking about a story this
1803
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,040
afternoon with uh
1804
01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:15,520
in my in my class um we're talking about
1805
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,840
ghost
1806
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,960
stories in chiang mai and one of the
1807
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:22,000
ghost stories
1808
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:23,199
is so because the khan city is here you
1809
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,800
can't bury the dead
1810
01:10:23,199 --> 01:10:28,800
within the city you have to bury the
1811
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:31,760
dead around the city so some of the han
1812
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:33,920
that hun people were buried uh in what
1813
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:36,080
eventually became the tang city
1814
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,360
which means the tongue houses were
1815
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:40,480
sometimes built on
1816
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:43,920
han graves so there's this a ghost
1817
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:43,920
story about the famous
1818
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:51,920
who someone built a built a toilet on
1819
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:54,480
top of vanquish uh grave
1820
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:56,159
and funko was not very unhappy so he
1821
01:10:54,480 --> 01:10:57,840
like came out and just like haunted that
1822
01:10:56,159 --> 01:11:00,159
house and then killed a lot of people
1823
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:02,239
and asked the person to remove his grave
1824
01:11:00,159 --> 01:11:04,719
relocate his grave somewhere else
1825
01:11:02,239 --> 01:11:06,400
so you you you would imagine that things
1826
01:11:04,719 --> 01:11:08,560
like that that were suppressed
1827
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,440
once suppressed by the tongues tongue
1828
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:12,560
structure
1829
01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:13,040
uh once it's re removed uh would uh be
1830
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,159
uh
1831
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:20,239
would become alive again all right
1832
01:11:16,159 --> 01:11:21,120
stop sharing this fascinating um thank
1833
01:11:20,239 --> 01:11:23,360
you and
1834
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:25,920
the next question coming from yoon jong
1835
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:28,480
jiang for the dynasties after the tongue
1836
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:31,120
the past of chiang an was not only as
1837
01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:31,679
a tongue capital but also as the memory
1838
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:34,480
of joe
1839
01:11:31,679 --> 01:11:34,880
ching han etc so did people after the
1840
01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:37,600
tongue
1841
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:40,239
select different aspects from this
1842
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:42,800
earlier dynasties uh
1843
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:44,480
yes uh the answer and and and thank you
1844
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:47,840
very much vientron for the
1845
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:51,199
the question uh i
1846
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:54,480
don't know if i have a map for it
1847
01:11:51,199 --> 01:11:56,640
here uh i don't but uh
1848
01:11:54,480 --> 01:11:57,520
obviously uh you know if you look at the
1849
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:00,400
the tanganju
1850
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:02,000
for instance it it has a long section on
1851
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:04,640
the han city
1852
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:06,400
uh so uh suminto was collecting the
1853
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,360
history of the the entire region not
1854
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:10,880
just the
1855
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:13,360
uh history of it as the tongue capital
1856
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,960
but i would say the most striking
1857
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:18,800
example comes from
1858
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:21,280
this text called by a
1859
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:23,280
by a southern zone person called cheong
1860
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:27,199
da chang
1861
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:30,000
i have to dig a bit deeper to see but i
1862
01:12:27,199 --> 01:12:30,960
i think he's never been to china because
1863
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:35,040
at that time chang
1864
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:38,239
was already part of the jin jin state
1865
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:40,560
so he wrote this text that had this
1866
01:12:38,239 --> 01:12:41,760
you know i wish i i wish i had the map
1867
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:45,440
here but he
1868
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:47,600
he basically put qin dynasty han dynasty
1869
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:50,880
joe dynasty sway dynasty
1870
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:52,320
and tong dynasty structures on the same
1871
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:55,360
map
1872
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:56,560
and call this process called five
1873
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,560
dynasties
1874
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,960
uh having their capital in the young
1875
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:00,960
region
1876
01:13:01,199 --> 01:13:05,440
in that way it sort of presents this a
1877
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:09,600
very interesting polymposist
1878
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:12,640
of imperial existence in the same space
1879
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:16,320
so yes there are other examples
1880
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:18,640
other ways of viewing viewing the uh
1881
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:20,800
the past of the region and and so i'm
1882
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,760
just focusing on the uh on the tongue
1883
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:24,960
part
1884
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:25,600
but thank you very much so the next
1885
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:28,960
question
1886
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:31,120
uh coming from ching von nee um he said
1887
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:32,000
you mentioned the continuity from the
1888
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,400
song to the main
1889
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,080
could you elaborate so this is connected
1890
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,400
to what you just said about the temporal
1891
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:41,520
scheme of your project
1892
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:42,239
right i mean so i'm really getting to
1893
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:45,360
the early
1894
01:13:42,239 --> 01:13:48,560
mean i i think uh you know i'm not a
1895
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:49,199
late imperial scholar i kind of shudder
1896
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:52,239
a little bit
1897
01:13:49,199 --> 01:13:53,360
uh to to uh at the thought of having to
1898
01:13:52,239 --> 01:13:56,239
read uh mean
1899
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:59,199
uh uh mean stuff i have started reading
1900
01:13:56,239 --> 01:13:59,199
some uh the judging
1901
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:05,440
here but what i'm
1902
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,320
saying really i'm i'm talking about uh
1903
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:08,159
the periods
1904
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:10,560
from the five dynasties to the early
1905
01:14:08,159 --> 01:14:13,679
mean and the continuity
1906
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,400
i see is that there wasn't as if there's
1907
01:14:13,679 --> 01:14:18,480
a sudden
1908
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:21,520
turn as there is now of the interest to
1909
01:14:18,480 --> 01:14:24,640
let's oh go go rebuild the
1910
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:28,640
the old uh palaces right let's
1911
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:29,440
uh try to write about uh the existence
1912
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:33,520
of these uh
1913
01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:33,520
nestorian churches
1914
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,199
what they seem to have been consistently
1915
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,520
interested
1916
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:40,640
was the region where the uh jin
1917
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,440
examinees were
1918
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:44,159
most active and here you can you can see
1919
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:47,280
the
1920
01:14:44,159 --> 01:14:48,080
you can see it i would say most clearly
1921
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,800
in the
1922
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:52,719
continued edition and inscriptions on
1923
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:54,719
the different stones invading
1924
01:14:52,719 --> 01:14:56,400
so one of the most interesting aspects
1925
01:14:54,719 --> 01:14:59,120
of this research is that
1926
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:00,640
uh i want to explore bailing as a
1927
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:03,600
archive
1928
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:05,520
uh because i don't know i i think many
1929
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,920
of you probably have been debating
1930
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,760
uh the way that baiting is presented the
1931
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,679
sorry the forest the steely
1932
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:14,239
museum is presented is that it's a
1933
01:15:11,679 --> 01:15:16,880
collection of dynasty stones
1934
01:15:14,239 --> 01:15:18,320
you go there to see the uh the yen
1935
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,920
family shrines instead
1936
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,760
you go there to see the nestorian
1937
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:25,120
christians stevie all tongue
1938
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:28,239
uh and the the stone classics right
1939
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:30,640
but on the edge on the back side and
1940
01:15:28,239 --> 01:15:32,080
and as i've said on the uh on the
1941
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:35,600
corners of these stones
1942
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:38,640
you have later traces of song jin
1943
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:41,520
yuan and ming uh inscriptions
1944
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:43,440
that showed continued interest in this
1945
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:45,520
side but also in the broader
1946
01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:49,040
southeast of the city so that's what i
1947
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:49,040
meant by uh the continuity
1948
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:53,360
thank you next question from dee wong
1949
01:15:52,159 --> 01:15:55,440
thank you professor one
1950
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:57,600
very fascinating talk as we know the
1951
01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:59,440
tang literata in chiang an
1952
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:01,199
also wrote various pieces about their
1953
01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:02,640
nostalgic feeling towards the han
1954
01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:05,199
dynasty chang on
1955
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:07,600
like the poem about loyola how would you
1956
01:16:05,199 --> 01:16:10,159
compare this nostalgia with song jin
1957
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:13,600
yuan people's appreciation of
1958
01:16:10,159 --> 01:16:17,760
the tang city of chiang mai that's a
1959
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:21,840
that's a that's a really good question
1960
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:25,600
i would say again the song genuineness
1961
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,600
nostalgia for uh
1962
01:16:25,679 --> 01:16:30,000
was uh centered around not only
1963
01:16:28,719 --> 01:16:32,159
geographically
1964
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:34,880
the this region right it's not as if
1965
01:16:32,159 --> 01:16:37,760
they're writing about how
1966
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:38,960
shunzong would have thought about a
1967
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:42,239
certain place
1968
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:44,320
they're writing about how uh baiju yi
1969
01:16:42,239 --> 01:16:46,320
or bajuyu would have seen what doofu
1970
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:48,400
would have seen
1971
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:50,080
but they're also temporarily uh
1972
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:53,440
clustered around
1973
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:56,480
the uh the mid to layton region
1974
01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:56,960
periods when the examination became the
1975
01:16:56,480 --> 01:17:00,000
most
1976
01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:03,360
prominent so you also don't see
1977
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:05,159
as much celebration of the early time
1978
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:07,040
so there seems to be a clear
1979
01:17:05,159 --> 01:17:10,159
differentiation
1980
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:14,320
um but also another thing is just the
1981
01:17:10,159 --> 01:17:17,360
uh scale uh i'm very interested you know
1982
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:19,199
and i mean we so dee was in uh one of my
1983
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:20,320
classes a couple years ago so we talked
1984
01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:23,280
about this issue
1985
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:24,640
um i'm very interested in how the hun
1986
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:26,640
how the tang city
1987
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,760
how people in the town looked at the han
1988
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:32,000
sites that's
1989
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:35,280
either outside or in the tongue city
1990
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:36,719
but the scale of this sort of reflection
1991
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:40,159
and recollection
1992
01:17:36,719 --> 01:17:42,400
seems to have been much smaller
1993
01:17:40,159 --> 01:17:43,760
there are examples of tongue people
1994
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:46,480
talking about high sites
1995
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:48,719
but they're not a lot that was not the
1996
01:17:46,480 --> 01:17:50,640
overwhelming interest that they had
1997
01:17:48,719 --> 01:17:52,159
so i think that's also another
1998
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:55,199
difference but yes this is a great
1999
01:17:52,159 --> 01:17:57,440
question i need to think more about it
2000
01:17:55,199 --> 01:17:58,719
thank you so next question coming from
2001
01:17:57,440 --> 01:18:00,239
julia oral
2002
01:17:58,719 --> 01:18:02,000
thank you so much for this wonderful
2003
01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:04,000
talk i never realized that the northern
2004
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:06,800
song antiquarian collecting
2005
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:08,719
was so focused around chiang did the
2006
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,360
downsizing of the city enable that
2007
01:18:08,719 --> 01:18:11,920
process
2008
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,640
because what was uh city had turned into
2009
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:16,159
fields
2010
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:19,360
and thus opened up to uh discoveries
2011
01:18:16,159 --> 01:18:22,719
uh yes the short answer is yes
2012
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:24,880
i don't want to over emphasize this
2013
01:18:22,719 --> 01:18:26,560
point right i don't want to over make
2014
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:27,360
this point too strongly because if you
2015
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:31,120
look at
2016
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:33,040
uh di golu uh there were a lot of
2017
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:34,800
this a lot of the things that oh until
2018
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:36,239
collected they're from all over the
2019
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:40,560
place
2020
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:45,040
and the same goes with uh with a
2021
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:48,159
the uh cargo tour uh so darling um
2022
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:50,719
uh but
2023
01:18:48,159 --> 01:18:51,280
what i think the rover challenge is
2024
01:18:50,719 --> 01:18:53,679
important
2025
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:55,040
in this story because in oh yang zeo's
2026
01:18:53,679 --> 01:18:58,239
case the first
2027
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:58,880
group of uh ancient objects that he
2028
01:18:58,239 --> 01:19:02,080
collected
2029
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:04,480
were from youtan who collected
2030
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:05,360
them from chiang mai so you can in a way
2031
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:08,960
you can say this
2032
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:11,520
inspired him to do this right um
2033
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:13,600
and one of the things that i started
2034
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:15,760
doing is to kind of co
2035
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,640
calculate how what's the percentage of
2036
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:19,120
the things
2037
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:21,280
from chiang an that uh made their way
2038
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:24,800
into uh oyancho's collection
2039
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:27,920
it's i would say tentatively a good
2040
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:30,800
you know 20 percent
2041
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:31,520
uh and and comparing to the entire you
2042
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,360
know if you
2043
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,880
think about chiang mai's place in the
2044
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:37,520
entire uh
2045
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:39,440
song empire uh that's a pretty good
2046
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:42,239
representation so so i would say
2047
01:19:39,440 --> 01:19:44,800
uh yes but with some uh some
2048
01:19:42,239 --> 01:19:44,800
conditioning
2049
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:49,199
the next question from yukino jung and
2050
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:51,600
this is actually related to what we
2051
01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:53,920
once talked about before so questions
2052
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:56,000
about um the authors and collectors seem
2053
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:58,560
to consist primarily
2054
01:19:56,000 --> 01:20:00,640
of people who might have identified more
2055
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:02,480
with a literate past
2056
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:04,640
and i was wondering if there might have
2057
01:20:02,480 --> 01:20:06,080
been an active selection of material and
2058
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,719
knowledge behind the strong
2059
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:10,960
interest in sites and monuments in the
2060
01:20:08,719 --> 01:20:13,040
south and southeast part of the city
2061
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:14,800
and would there have been a hierarchy of
2062
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:18,080
curiosity toward
2063
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:21,360
and collection of the past
2064
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:23,120
yes uh there seems to be a hierarchy in
2065
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:25,440
a sense that most of the elites were
2066
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:27,120
interested in the southeast
2067
01:20:25,440 --> 01:20:29,280
but that doesn't mean that there weren't
2068
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:31,920
weren't any other examples um
2069
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:33,440
right this person i think you know i i
2070
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:35,360
talked to who doing about him
2071
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:36,960
uh this guy called yoshi young new
2072
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:40,719
orleans
2073
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:43,360
general mostly a military guy who
2074
01:20:40,719 --> 01:20:45,679
nonetheless is you know quite good at
2075
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:48,560
writing
2076
01:20:45,679 --> 01:20:49,679
is a clear exception he was very active
2077
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,080
in the region
2078
01:20:49,679 --> 01:20:52,960
but what he did was not to inscribe his
2079
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:54,880
name in
2080
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:56,639
places like uh trijiang like the
2081
01:20:54,880 --> 01:21:00,560
twisting river or or yen
2082
01:20:56,639 --> 01:21:03,280
or the uh the the pagoda
2083
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:04,320
he created all these like different
2084
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:06,880
shrines for
2085
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,440
emperor taijong well he didn't create
2086
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,520
the
2087
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:10,480
song government created some of them but
2088
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:13,760
he uh
2089
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:17,360
he created a uh steely
2090
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:19,440
for uh uh the uh uh the grave for the
2091
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:21,600
mausoleum for tai zhong and
2092
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:23,440
and uh for the kaijung of tongue and
2093
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:27,120
then a steely of the
2094
01:21:23,440 --> 01:21:30,159
uh the six forces the famous six horses
2095
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:32,800
in fact according to that steely
2096
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:35,760
it seems that he replicated he he
2097
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:38,880
reproduced the six horses and placed it
2098
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:39,520
in the court of the the the county
2099
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,480
because
2100
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:43,199
the actual horses were very far on top
2101
01:21:42,480 --> 01:21:46,159
of the the
2102
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:47,199
mausoleum is hard to get to and then he
2103
01:21:46,159 --> 01:21:51,280
visited a lot
2104
01:21:47,199 --> 01:21:54,080
a lot of other sorry
2105
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:56,080
a lot of other impure sites so there are
2106
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:59,120
people like that
2107
01:21:56,080 --> 01:22:02,239
but that's very much an exception
2108
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:06,400
so one thing that i would want to do
2109
01:22:02,239 --> 01:22:08,719
to expand uh on this a little bit is too
2110
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:10,239
so i've been looking at the song and jin
2111
01:22:08,719 --> 01:22:12,560
dynasty inscriptions
2112
01:22:10,239 --> 01:22:13,360
in beiling another thing to do is to
2113
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:16,239
look at these
2114
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,560
inscriptions on other tanganyi stones in
2115
01:22:16,239 --> 01:22:20,400
the
2116
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:24,480
in the mausoleum right a very famous
2117
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:28,320
very well studied example is the uh um
2118
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:31,360
is a qin dynasty by an inscription
2119
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:34,480
in kitan um
2120
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:37,520
written on the backside of of
2121
01:22:34,480 --> 01:22:40,800
uterine's uh stealing so what's that
2122
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:42,800
steely famously is empty so there was
2123
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:44,639
a lot of space to carve stuff there are
2124
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:46,560
a lot of later carvings
2125
01:22:44,639 --> 01:22:47,760
most famous one is this one but there
2126
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:49,760
were a lot of other ones
2127
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:51,360
so there were people who were interested
2128
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:54,560
in these places
2129
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:57,920
it's just they were not necessarily the
2130
01:22:54,560 --> 01:23:00,480
cultural elites uh as as these song
2131
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:01,280
uh you know the most famous people like
2132
01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:03,840
socher
2133
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:06,000
sushi also uh also talked about uh this
2134
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:10,800
in uh some of his poems
2135
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:10,800
like uh like oem show
2136
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:15,280
thank you so it looks like the lituratai
2137
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:18,480
literary
2138
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:19,600
uh group win the win over the military
2139
01:23:18,480 --> 01:23:22,560
group
2140
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:23,120
in this contest of claiming chiang mai
2141
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:25,440
and so
2142
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:28,639
our next question coming from waimangli
2143
01:23:25,440 --> 01:23:30,400
uh one of our phd students here
2144
01:23:28,639 --> 01:23:32,320
and she said i'm really intrigued by
2145
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:34,000
your discussion of people's concern of
2146
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:36,639
southeastern part of the original
2147
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:38,560
chiang ang city especially you mentioned
2148
01:23:36,639 --> 01:23:40,400
the case of the two pakodas
2149
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:42,719
and their preservations and this
2150
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:46,080
reminded me of james blatt's book on the
2151
01:23:42,719 --> 01:23:48,560
kong temple for flat the negotiation of
2152
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:50,480
power among the kong family the local
2153
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:51,280
officials and the central government
2154
01:23:50,480 --> 01:23:54,320
consistently
2155
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:56,560
shaped the form of kong temple and i'm
2156
01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:58,159
wondering how different social forces
2157
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,280
involved in the preservation of the
2158
01:23:58,159 --> 01:24:02,400
cultural quarter
2159
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:05,199
and the southeastern part of the city
2160
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:07,360
um yeah thank you very much i thanks for
2161
01:24:05,199 --> 01:24:09,520
the reference i have not read that book
2162
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,400
uh it sounds like a very interesting
2163
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:13,600
read i'll
2164
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:14,400
go seek it out uh what i see and and
2165
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,880
here is
2166
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:18,080
so we have very good information about
2167
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:20,880
this uh from
2168
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:22,320
uh john lee's travel log so the travel
2169
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,080
log that i just talked
2170
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:25,600
about the travel log to the south of the
2171
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:28,800
city so he visited these
2172
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:30,000
uh these pagoda pagodas and then he
2173
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:33,280
talks about the pre
2174
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:36,639
the condition of the pagoda in the
2175
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:37,840
late 11th century right and then to his
2176
01:24:36,639 --> 01:24:41,199
text
2177
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:44,639
there was a anonymous addition
2178
01:24:41,199 --> 01:24:47,679
of further notes written by a late
2179
01:24:44,639 --> 01:24:49,679
qin dynasty person that talks about
2180
01:24:47,679 --> 01:24:51,600
what these sites look like in the jin
2181
01:24:49,679 --> 01:24:53,760
dynasty
2182
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:55,840
and then you have the juan dynasty
2183
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:58,320
gazetteer by lortin
2184
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,520
lotion zhang that also talks about uh
2185
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:02,000
how these sites were
2186
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:04,480
like and then obviously you have this
2187
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:07,600
ming dynasty gazetteers and travel arcs
2188
01:25:04,480 --> 01:25:09,040
so you you can you kind of know what
2189
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:12,000
happened to these places
2190
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:14,000
i mean very often the construction and
2191
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,679
rebuilding of these structures would
2192
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:17,679
need communal support
2193
01:25:15,679 --> 01:25:18,800
it's not just the effort of the
2194
01:25:17,679 --> 01:25:20,800
government
2195
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:22,880
the government obviously had to take the
2196
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:25,920
lead and often did
2197
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:26,960
but but there were communal engagement
2198
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:29,360
with these sites
2199
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:30,320
and importantly especially when you get
2200
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,880
to the ming
2201
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:33,760
uh you know many people might know there
2202
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:36,639
were a lot of
2203
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:37,280
earthquake that that really uh you know
2204
01:25:36,639 --> 01:25:40,639
had
2205
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:43,760
some severe impact on these uh sites
2206
01:25:40,639 --> 01:25:45,600
so they were uh constantly re
2207
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:46,960
rebuilding at least repaired and
2208
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:50,239
maintained
2209
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:52,960
uh i've seen data about that in the song
2210
01:25:50,239 --> 01:25:54,320
through the the yuan dynasties i will
2211
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:56,239
need to look a
2212
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:57,840
bit further down in the ming and the
2213
01:25:56,239 --> 01:26:00,239
team but but that seems to have been
2214
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:02,239
what was going on
2215
01:26:00,239 --> 01:26:03,360
thank you i i noticed that we are
2216
01:26:02,239 --> 01:26:07,199
actually approaching
2217
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:08,239
uh 5 30 um um but we do have a few more
2218
01:26:07,199 --> 01:26:10,560
questions here
2219
01:26:08,239 --> 01:26:11,679
i can i can go if you're longer i can go
2220
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:13,679
a few longer if you
2221
01:26:11,679 --> 01:26:14,960
if you want that's great thank you and
2222
01:26:13,679 --> 01:26:16,560
uh thank you uh
2223
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:18,639
for the audience who stay over it we
2224
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:21,920
still actually have a large audience
2225
01:26:18,639 --> 01:26:23,280
listening up so our next question from
2226
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:25,120
tim qiu
2227
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:26,960
thank you professor 1 very inspiring
2228
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,880
talk i'm wondering why you choose to
2229
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:31,840
stop the research period in
2230
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:33,520
1400 do people in the ming and qing
2231
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,800
period stop collecting the tongue
2232
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:38,080
remains or stop
2233
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:41,120
recollecting the tongue legacies
2234
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:44,000
um the short answer is no but i
2235
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:44,960
don't know as well and the reason i
2236
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:48,320
stopped there
2237
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:51,920
is partially just my
2238
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:52,560
limit as a medievalist or middle period
2239
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:55,040
scholar
2240
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:56,480
i i'm a little bit nervous in in going
2241
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:58,719
into the main
2242
01:26:56,480 --> 01:27:00,400
uh too deep into the ming and and
2243
01:26:58,719 --> 01:27:01,120
definitely don't want to go into the
2244
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:04,159
chain
2245
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:07,679
uh it's a scary place um
2246
01:27:04,159 --> 01:27:10,159
but but there is uh some intellect there
2247
01:27:07,679 --> 01:27:13,360
are some intellectual rationale for it
2248
01:27:10,159 --> 01:27:17,040
and i think a major one is the uh
2249
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:20,080
is the the what the city looked like
2250
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:23,920
right if you zoom out we know
2251
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:27,760
very much about the tang city we know
2252
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:29,679
very well about the tang city
2253
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:30,800
we know quite a bit about the ming city
2254
01:27:29,679 --> 01:27:32,480
because the current
2255
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:34,480
you know the qing and then the modern
2256
01:27:32,480 --> 01:27:36,639
city they were like basically
2257
01:27:34,480 --> 01:27:38,320
built on the bases of the mean city so
2258
01:27:36,639 --> 01:27:41,280
they're roughly similar
2259
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:42,080
and socially therefore they also perhaps
2260
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:45,679
have similar
2261
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:48,320
impacts on the population it is this
2262
01:27:45,679 --> 01:27:50,000
intervening five centuries that we don't
2263
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:53,440
have a very clear idea
2264
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:56,080
of so so you know to in order to
2265
01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:56,800
not make this project uh too big to
2266
01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:59,280
handle
2267
01:27:56,800 --> 01:28:01,040
i i want to sort of focus on uh these
2268
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,840
five centuries i mean five centuries is
2269
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:03,760
a long time
2270
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,760
i i talked to my colleagues in history
2271
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:09,120
department they're like this is too big
2272
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:11,280
you know so so i i uh
2273
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,800
but but but your question is well taken
2274
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:15,600
i need to even
2275
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:16,880
even if i don't plan to go into that i
2276
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:20,639
need to uh at least
2277
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:23,120
have a better sense of what was going on
2278
01:28:20,639 --> 01:28:24,960
indeed and uh excuse me excuse me for
2279
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:28,239
interjecting a little bit uh
2280
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:31,440
so could you uh care to say a bit more
2281
01:28:28,239 --> 01:28:33,280
about the beginning point uh 900 because
2282
01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:35,520
uh what you mentioned about the material
2283
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:38,639
sources are mostly from 11th century
2284
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:39,280
right and and so it's the beginning
2285
01:28:38,639 --> 01:28:41,199
point
2286
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:43,440
more having more to do with the
2287
01:28:41,199 --> 01:28:46,639
militarization or the downsizing
2288
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:49,600
before uh uh
2289
01:28:46,639 --> 01:28:51,199
great question uh it has a lot to do uh
2290
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:53,840
i would say with both
2291
01:28:51,199 --> 01:28:54,320
the the reason that i start with 900 is
2292
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,280
is
2293
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:58,400
is that that i i think i can defend a
2294
01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:01,199
little bit better
2295
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:01,920
the tongue capital was moved out of
2296
01:29:01,199 --> 01:29:03,760
tongan
2297
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:04,960
the town emperor was forced out of town
2298
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:08,560
in 904
2299
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:11,520
so i just rounded up to 900 and along
2300
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:12,480
that process uh this is through chiang
2301
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:16,239
zhong or to
2302
01:29:12,480 --> 01:29:19,760
win depending on your perspective
2303
01:29:16,239 --> 01:29:20,719
he not only forced the emperor out of
2304
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:23,840
chiang mai
2305
01:29:20,719 --> 01:29:25,280
he also brought a large population force
2306
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:28,639
the large population
2307
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:31,120
of the city and then uh took down
2308
01:29:28,639 --> 01:29:32,080
some a lot of the building materials
2309
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:34,000
because he wants to
2310
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:36,560
you know build rebuild loyal with these
2311
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:39,600
people and the the building structures
2312
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:42,400
so he moved everything to loya
2313
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:43,600
and around the same time maybe at the
2314
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:46,719
same time or maybe
2315
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:49,199
just a few years later a local warlord
2316
01:29:46,719 --> 01:29:50,080
named hanji and started constructing the
2317
01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:51,920
new city
2318
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,280
because the new city is not just that
2319
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:56,320
they didn't just use
2320
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:59,360
the uh the old tongue city uh tang
2321
01:29:56,320 --> 01:30:02,560
uh uh uh uh imperial city
2322
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:05,679
as the as the new city uh they
2323
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:07,760
it still needed uh uh more construction
2324
01:30:05,679 --> 01:30:10,320
right so the construction also happened
2325
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:12,880
in the first decade of the 10th century
2326
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,920
and that would include because the the
2327
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:16,000
thing with
2328
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:18,320
the the imperial city in the town is
2329
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:21,280
that it doesn't have a northern wall
2330
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:21,840
because in north it connects to the the
2331
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:23,840
the
2332
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:25,520
the palace so you don't need to defend
2333
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:28,000
against the emperor right
2334
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:30,000
um i mean you would think the the palace
2335
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:32,320
had a southern wall so there was one
2336
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:34,000
wall but the impure city didn't have a
2337
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:37,360
northern wall so they had to connect
2338
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:38,560
the city to the the palace and use part
2339
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:40,560
of the palace city
2340
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:42,800
so it still needed construction and in
2341
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:45,840
that process you can say that that's the
2342
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:49,679
you know military militarization
2343
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:51,520
but both processes uh already started in
2344
01:30:49,679 --> 01:30:53,280
the early 10th century and that's why i
2345
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:55,040
started there
2346
01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:57,360
thank you and actually this gives us a
2347
01:30:55,040 --> 01:31:00,080
nice transition to our next question
2348
01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:00,960
um from grace time and her question is
2349
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:02,719
about
2350
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:05,040
what you have talked about seems to be
2351
01:31:02,719 --> 01:31:07,040
largely cultural interest of literature
2352
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:08,800
in the south and east part of chiang
2353
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:11,360
but how did this interest result in the
2354
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:12,159
shift of urban expansion direction after
2355
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:14,880
song
2356
01:31:12,159 --> 01:31:16,480
or was it just coincident with the shift
2357
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:18,480
i would like to know if
2358
01:31:16,480 --> 01:31:21,199
any other factors contributed to the
2359
01:31:18,480 --> 01:31:24,719
shift of urban expansion
2360
01:31:21,199 --> 01:31:25,840
so this is sort of the more conjectural
2361
01:31:24,719 --> 01:31:29,120
part of the talk
2362
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:32,239
right i i my suspicion is that
2363
01:31:29,120 --> 01:31:34,719
if you have to close one gate
2364
01:31:32,239 --> 01:31:36,320
you probably close the gate that's
2365
01:31:34,719 --> 01:31:39,120
facing an area that
2366
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:39,920
people are not very interested in going
2367
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:41,840
uh
2368
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:45,199
as opposed to closing the gate that that
2369
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:49,280
people regularly would use
2370
01:31:45,199 --> 01:31:53,360
the way to kind of substantiate
2371
01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:56,719
this to kind of try to substantiate
2372
01:31:53,360 --> 01:32:00,000
this claim is to actually look at
2373
01:31:56,719 --> 01:32:01,600
the situation inside the city so one
2374
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,040
thing that you wouldn't you would
2375
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:05,199
notice that i haven't really talked too
2376
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:07,840
much about is that i didn't really talk
2377
01:32:05,199 --> 01:32:09,120
a lot about what was going on inside the
2378
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:11,199
city
2379
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:12,400
inside the song and the yuan and the uh
2380
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:15,280
and the in the uh
2381
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:16,000
energy and tin and yuan city that
2382
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:18,639
doesn't
2383
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:19,760
it it's not because we don't have the
2384
01:32:18,639 --> 01:32:22,480
sources
2385
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:22,880
uh i just you know haven't done the work
2386
01:32:22,480 --> 01:32:25,840
yet
2387
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:27,360
um i'll just show you one very good
2388
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:30,719
source that uh that i
2389
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:34,320
am uh in the process of uh uh
2390
01:32:30,719 --> 01:32:37,440
making use and this is a uh
2391
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:40,480
so you can can you see
2392
01:32:37,440 --> 01:32:42,480
yes you can see those of stone right
2393
01:32:40,480 --> 01:32:43,600
you can see how small the inscriptions
2394
01:32:42,480 --> 01:32:46,960
are
2395
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:48,080
right this is a list of the the pieces
2396
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:51,360
of land that was
2397
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:54,480
uh given to support the uh the
2398
01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:58,480
the um provincial college
2399
01:32:54,480 --> 01:33:01,840
a provincial school in the jin dynasty
2400
01:32:58,480 --> 01:33:02,320
so each entry lists a what someone's
2401
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:04,880
house
2402
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:06,960
and the the borders of the house so what
2403
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:08,880
i'm doing is that i am using these to
2404
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:11,199
kind of try to reconstruct what was
2405
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:14,400
going on in the jin city
2406
01:33:11,199 --> 01:33:14,880
with this kind of work uh my hope is
2407
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:18,639
that
2408
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:20,639
you get a bit of the uh a bit more
2409
01:33:18,639 --> 01:33:22,000
you you get to know a bit more about
2410
01:33:20,639 --> 01:33:24,960
this more social
2411
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:26,320
aspect of the change and and with that
2412
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:29,360
potentially you know i
2413
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:30,080
i'll be able to either substantiate or
2414
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:33,280
refute
2415
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:36,400
my uh my current hypothesis about
2416
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:39,199
why the city moved uh to the to the east
2417
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:40,000
but but as of now uh this is largely
2418
01:33:39,199 --> 01:33:43,120
just my
2419
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:46,080
my hypotheses i think it makes sense but
2420
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:48,320
nonetheless it's a hypothesis
2421
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:50,400
thank you so our next question coming
2422
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:52,800
from professor sonya lee
2423
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:54,239
who teaches our history um also in our
2424
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:57,360
neighboring institution
2425
01:33:54,239 --> 01:34:00,639
so uh your interpretation of post chan
2426
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:02,639
post tong chang seems to be based mostly
2427
01:34:00,639 --> 01:34:04,960
on transmitted text
2428
01:34:02,639 --> 01:34:06,880
what about archaeological materials that
2429
01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:09,040
surfaced in recent years
2430
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:10,000
do they corroborate with the information
2431
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,920
in these texts
2432
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:13,520
or do they paint a very different
2433
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:17,040
picture
2434
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:20,639
um the the i guess the
2435
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:21,920
uh uh the answer is yes uh because i
2436
01:34:20,639 --> 01:34:25,360
feel like
2437
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:27,760
the thing on the stones invading
2438
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:28,960
uh they're textual but they're also you
2439
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:30,719
know you can say that they're
2440
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:32,800
they're they're material right they're
2441
01:34:30,719 --> 01:34:35,280
not just textural
2442
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,960
but recent archaeological discoveries
2443
01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:41,199
you would know that around
2444
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:43,600
xi'an there are a lot of new discoveries
2445
01:34:41,199 --> 01:34:45,199
and these things are obviously very very
2446
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:48,320
important
2447
01:34:45,199 --> 01:34:51,040
uh one of the things that i would uh
2448
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:53,440
uh that but most of them are are from
2449
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:54,239
the tang dynasty so they're kind of not
2450
01:34:53,440 --> 01:34:57,280
really
2451
01:34:54,239 --> 01:34:57,840
relevant for uh what i'm doing two
2452
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:00,400
things
2453
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:01,920
uh uh immediately comes to mind uh when
2454
01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:04,159
i think about this question
2455
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,760
one is that i was reading a song dynasty
2456
01:35:04,159 --> 01:35:09,199
abaddon that was discovered
2457
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:10,960
in the southern part of the city that
2458
01:35:09,199 --> 01:35:13,440
had it been in the tongue would have
2459
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:15,520
been within the city
2460
01:35:13,440 --> 01:35:17,360
so in the tongue there would be no no
2461
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:19,520
one would be allowed to bury anyone and
2462
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:21,920
therefore there wouldn't be any above
2463
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:23,600
so when you discovered a song above in
2464
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:25,360
that region that me
2465
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:26,719
and it talks about it was buried in
2466
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:28,639
their family graveyard
2467
01:35:26,719 --> 01:35:31,040
so it gives you a sense of how that
2468
01:35:28,639 --> 01:35:32,880
region was used in the song
2469
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:34,159
so hopefully i can collect more
2470
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:36,320
materials that give me
2471
01:35:34,159 --> 01:35:38,159
a better sense of how that area
2472
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:40,719
developed so that's one
2473
01:35:38,159 --> 01:35:42,800
another one is a big discovery that
2474
01:35:40,719 --> 01:35:44,639
everyone in northern song studies uh
2475
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:48,639
know about which is the louis family
2476
01:35:44,639 --> 01:35:48,639
graveyard right i talked about
2477
01:35:48,719 --> 01:35:52,960
these people who were engaged in the
2478
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:55,920
collection of these materials
2479
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:56,800
their grapes were found the literal you
2480
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:58,400
know
2481
01:35:56,800 --> 01:36:00,639
darling's grave for instance is
2482
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:04,239
discovered and it's a
2483
01:36:00,639 --> 01:36:06,800
fascinating uh site uh i don't know if
2484
01:36:04,239 --> 01:36:07,520
anyone's seen it but loudly's grave has
2485
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:10,719
three
2486
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:14,159
uh three tiers the first two are are
2487
01:36:10,719 --> 01:36:16,800
are empty so they're designed to trick
2488
01:36:14,159 --> 01:36:17,920
the tomb robbers and be like open and
2489
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:20,639
empty right
2490
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:21,760
but the the the last one is is at the
2491
01:36:20,639 --> 01:36:24,000
very bottom
2492
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:26,000
so here you can see that the way that
2493
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:28,159
they constructed their tones
2494
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:30,960
they had they very much had in mind what
2495
01:36:28,159 --> 01:36:33,520
was going on in xi'an at the time
2496
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:34,239
there obviously there were a lot of tomb
2497
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:36,239
diggers and
2498
01:36:34,239 --> 01:36:37,360
and digging down into terms and
2499
01:36:36,239 --> 01:36:39,679
collecting stuff
2500
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:41,360
and so as collectors they were trying to
2501
01:36:39,679 --> 01:36:43,600
prevent that from happening
2502
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:45,040
you know unfortunately tom digger still
2503
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:48,800
found the italian stone
2504
01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:51,679
and it was still rough so it didn't work
2505
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:52,800
too bad um so our next question from
2506
01:36:51,679 --> 01:36:55,280
eric lee
2507
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:56,400
with regard to militarization could you
2508
01:36:55,280 --> 01:36:58,639
give a longer view
2509
01:36:56,400 --> 01:37:00,639
it seems from the tongue to early ming
2510
01:36:58,639 --> 01:37:02,320
the wars and borderlands struggles had
2511
01:37:00,639 --> 01:37:04,080
consistently been
2512
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:05,760
been forcing various regimes to
2513
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:07,679
militarize the region
2514
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:09,440
how would you put this militarization in
2515
01:37:07,679 --> 01:37:10,719
larger historical and geographical
2516
01:37:09,440 --> 01:37:12,560
context
2517
01:37:10,719 --> 01:37:14,080
yeah this is one of the most important
2518
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:16,880
things that i need to think
2519
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:18,880
more about because like you said right
2520
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:20,960
in the tongue
2521
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:22,639
you have a big city but like the town
2522
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,800
city itself really can't defend it
2523
01:37:22,639 --> 01:37:26,159
against anyone so when the tibetans come
2524
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:28,880
the emperors will fly
2525
01:37:26,159 --> 01:37:30,639
flat uh flat and it will flee and when
2526
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:33,199
the you know various rebels come the
2527
01:37:30,639 --> 01:37:35,040
emperors would flee
2528
01:37:33,199 --> 01:37:36,639
chiang mai really didn't function as a
2529
01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:40,000
defense uh uh
2530
01:37:36,639 --> 01:37:42,239
uh unit but in the song this
2531
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:43,040
is the place where the sun was
2532
01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:46,000
organizing
2533
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:48,800
the military force against uh uh against
2534
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:51,280
the xi jiang and you have
2535
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:52,880
a lot of records about the construction
2536
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:55,360
so suma guang has a famous
2537
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:56,880
uh letter about the uh maintenance and
2538
01:37:55,360 --> 01:38:00,000
the construction of the uh
2539
01:37:56,880 --> 01:38:03,119
of the the build uh the um uh
2540
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:07,119
the provincial uh uh the
2541
01:38:03,119 --> 01:38:10,000
city or the song city in chiang mai um
2542
01:38:07,119 --> 01:38:11,760
but this didn't stop in the earth in the
2543
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:14,960
northern zone
2544
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:18,159
between the song jin transition
2545
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:20,639
this region changed hand a few times
2546
01:38:18,159 --> 01:38:22,400
so it was conquered by the gene then
2547
01:38:20,639 --> 01:38:24,560
gave it back to the song
2548
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:25,840
and then it was conquered again so you
2549
01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:29,199
can imagine it became
2550
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:32,639
a constant borderline so in that
2551
01:38:29,199 --> 01:38:35,119
period obviously it also accelerated the
2552
01:38:32,639 --> 01:38:37,360
process of uh militarization and then in
2553
01:38:35,119 --> 01:38:41,280
the yuan enemy you have the new
2554
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:44,400
phenomenon of uh these princes
2555
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:45,520
coming to the city and and and having a
2556
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:48,159
separate unit
2557
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:48,639
uh near the city so the city itself
2558
01:38:48,159 --> 01:38:51,520
wasn't
2559
01:38:48,639 --> 01:38:52,080
the primary uh uh sort of defense
2560
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:54,960
instead
2561
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:55,760
you have these princes like the the the
2562
01:38:54,960 --> 01:38:57,520
nc one
2563
01:38:55,760 --> 01:39:00,239
uh you know the son of kublai and then
2564
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:01,440
in in the in the mean the the uh the son
2565
01:39:00,239 --> 01:39:03,280
of juan jung
2566
01:39:01,440 --> 01:39:04,639
are coming here and and kind of are
2567
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:08,159
trying to build some sort of
2568
01:39:04,639 --> 01:39:09,920
structure and then in the king obviously
2569
01:39:08,159 --> 01:39:12,960
you have a very large
2570
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:15,920
mantra banner city within the
2571
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:18,639
the city so there absolutely is a longer
2572
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:22,719
story of militarization that that
2573
01:39:18,639 --> 01:39:25,840
that i will include in the project
2574
01:39:22,719 --> 01:39:28,239
thank you and our next question from
2575
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:30,239
professor bettine burch
2576
01:39:28,239 --> 01:39:31,840
wonderful talk i especially like your
2577
01:39:30,239 --> 01:39:33,280
use of material evidence
2578
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:35,440
and i find your conclusions very
2579
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:37,920
convincing do you think there
2580
01:39:35,440 --> 01:39:40,480
be a contrasting narrative from the
2581
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:42,639
government's perspective and what kinds
2582
01:39:40,480 --> 01:39:43,440
of rebuilding did each dynasty regime
2583
01:39:42,639 --> 01:39:45,600
undertake
2584
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:46,800
if we look at the material building of
2585
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:49,520
different eras
2586
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:52,000
might we get an alternative alternate
2587
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:52,000
narrative
2588
01:39:52,639 --> 01:39:56,080
thank you very much so the alternative
2589
01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:59,280
narrative would be
2590
01:39:56,080 --> 01:40:00,239
that um i sort of mentioned this a
2591
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:03,119
little bit
2592
01:40:00,239 --> 01:40:03,440
that some government did try to rebuild
2593
01:40:03,119 --> 01:40:05,280
uh
2594
01:40:03,440 --> 01:40:07,600
certain sites that had something to do
2595
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:10,639
with the town emperors
2596
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:13,840
so the uh the shrine for
2597
01:40:10,639 --> 01:40:16,239
uh uh emperor taizhong and for
2598
01:40:13,840 --> 01:40:16,880
a few like at least five or six tongue
2599
01:40:16,239 --> 01:40:20,239
emperors
2600
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:21,679
the sun the song early sung state did
2601
01:40:20,239 --> 01:40:24,960
try to rebuild them
2602
01:40:21,679 --> 01:40:28,880
and we still have the stones uh for the
2603
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:31,280
uh for like for instance the uh
2604
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:32,480
so the shrine the the city for the
2605
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:35,679
reconstruction of the
2606
01:40:32,480 --> 01:40:39,199
uh the shrine for for impertil
2607
01:40:35,679 --> 01:40:41,199
but these things um
2608
01:40:39,199 --> 01:40:43,199
again you know relatively speaking
2609
01:40:41,199 --> 01:40:45,840
because they were so far
2610
01:40:43,199 --> 01:40:47,679
they were built in connection to the
2611
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:52,800
imperial muslim
2612
01:40:47,679 --> 01:40:52,800
so they were all very far to the north
2613
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:56,320
they seem to have had little impact on
2614
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:59,280
the residents of
2615
01:40:56,320 --> 01:41:00,560
chiang an we have i have not found a
2616
01:40:59,280 --> 01:41:03,280
single record of
2617
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:04,320
that a narrative record that tells me
2618
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:06,400
that these people
2619
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:08,000
people in chiang mai were going to these
2620
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:10,400
crimes and visiting them
2621
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:11,600
there are inscriptions on the stones
2622
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:14,080
that that
2623
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:16,480
show that yes indeed there were people
2624
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:18,800
there absolutely were people doing that
2625
01:41:16,480 --> 01:41:20,639
but again the overwhelming interest
2626
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:24,239
seems to have been uh in the other
2627
01:41:20,639 --> 01:41:27,280
direction uh so that's one contrast
2628
01:41:24,239 --> 01:41:29,920
but i think a clear contrast is that
2629
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:30,960
there is absolutely no interest in
2630
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:33,679
recovering
2631
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:34,320
the history of chiang mai as the uh what
2632
01:41:33,679 --> 01:41:36,960
you know we
2633
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:38,159
now know it as you know the cosmopolitan
2634
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:41,520
empire right
2635
01:41:38,159 --> 01:41:44,840
that the there's no stone inscription
2636
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:47,360
from any of the non-chinese religious
2637
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:51,119
institutions the famous uh
2638
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:51,600
uh famous uh um nestorian christian city
2639
01:41:51,119 --> 01:41:54,960
was
2640
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:55,600
moved uh in the city from uh not from
2641
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:57,840
the
2642
01:41:55,600 --> 01:42:00,320
region of the city but really some far
2643
01:41:57,840 --> 01:42:03,199
uh georgia from quite far away
2644
01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:04,159
from a different uh uh nestorian uh
2645
01:42:03,199 --> 01:42:07,119
monastery
2646
01:42:04,159 --> 01:42:07,840
so the nestorian churches in in sarasota
2647
01:42:07,119 --> 01:42:10,159
temples
2648
01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:11,760
in the city essentially in the song and
2649
01:42:10,159 --> 01:42:13,840
and the subsequent dynasties
2650
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:15,920
i mean they must have also had their
2651
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:16,880
monuments they must have also had their
2652
01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:18,960
inscriptions
2653
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:22,000
but there seemed to be no interest in
2654
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:22,000
collecting any of these
2655
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:26,560
interesting um so wenching we still have
2656
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:29,199
uh i think final three questions left
2657
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:31,280
yeah we can answer them i mean they're
2658
01:42:29,199 --> 01:42:34,480
people still here like i'm very
2659
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:35,119
moved well we all attracted by your very
2660
01:42:34,480 --> 01:42:38,400
exciting
2661
01:42:35,119 --> 01:42:41,040
uh q a so um our next question from
2662
01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:43,199
meimei jung
2663
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:45,199
i wonder if natural landscape and the
2664
01:42:43,199 --> 01:42:47,119
terrain surrounding the city
2665
01:42:45,199 --> 01:42:49,600
and changan's connection with other
2666
01:42:47,119 --> 01:42:52,639
major cities or important transportation
2667
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:55,440
lines also exert a significant influence
2668
01:42:52,639 --> 01:42:58,080
on um how later people travel to the
2669
01:42:55,440 --> 01:43:00,960
city and remembered the city
2670
01:42:58,080 --> 01:43:02,159
uh yes that's a very good point and i'm
2671
01:43:00,960 --> 01:43:05,600
gonna just show you
2672
01:43:02,159 --> 01:43:08,840
one example uh
2673
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:12,239
wait let's see if i have that book
2674
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:15,360
uh open this is the map
2675
01:43:12,239 --> 01:43:18,639
of chang of xi'an uh in the
2676
01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:22,880
later period um
2677
01:43:18,639 --> 01:43:24,880
uh this is ming dynasty right
2678
01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:27,199
so you're saying connections to other
2679
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:28,960
places how did that shine
2680
01:43:27,199 --> 01:43:30,639
are you going to share yours yeah yeah
2681
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:32,800
no no i i i i am
2682
01:43:30,639 --> 01:43:34,800
uh right away oh okay uh i'm just saying
2683
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:37,840
you are talking about how
2684
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:39,920
the uh shape how
2685
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:41,520
the connection to other places shaped
2686
01:43:39,920 --> 01:43:45,280
the city
2687
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:47,760
look at the city in uh the ming dynasty
2688
01:43:45,280 --> 01:43:48,560
this is the city but they built this
2689
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:50,960
additional
2690
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:52,400
chunk because obviously xi'an's
2691
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:54,800
connection now
2692
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:57,280
is mostly to the east or or you know
2693
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:59,840
people like to travel to the east
2694
01:43:57,280 --> 01:44:00,880
um and there's this additional chunk
2695
01:43:59,840 --> 01:44:03,280
that's built
2696
01:44:00,880 --> 01:44:04,480
uh that you don't see in other
2697
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:06,960
directions
2698
01:44:04,480 --> 01:44:07,760
so you know if we get to a little bit
2699
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:10,239
more uh
2700
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:11,040
metaphysical it's almost like in the
2701
01:44:10,239 --> 01:44:14,880
tongue that
2702
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:17,280
the empire is looking a bit to the west
2703
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:18,480
whereas you know this is you know a
2704
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:22,320
veteran henson's uh
2705
01:44:18,480 --> 01:44:24,560
textbook open empire has a very nice
2706
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:25,920
way of describing the spirit as china
2707
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:28,400
looking west and then
2708
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:29,520
after the tang china looking north you
2709
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:33,119
can almost see
2710
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:35,840
manifestation of that in the space
2711
01:44:33,119 --> 01:44:36,560
in the local sort of regional landscape
2712
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:39,600
of xi'an
2713
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:42,000
in a sense that uh the west of the city
2714
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:44,480
as a whole the development seems to have
2715
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:44,480
stalled
2716
01:44:45,199 --> 01:44:48,239
interesting thank you so our next
2717
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:50,639
question from
2718
01:44:48,239 --> 01:44:52,639
kaili could you talk about the imperial
2719
01:44:50,639 --> 01:44:54,480
city renaissance project
2720
01:44:52,639 --> 01:44:56,400
why the city decided to start this
2721
01:44:54,480 --> 01:44:58,719
project
2722
01:44:56,400 --> 01:45:00,400
uh and then i wonder if you know
2723
01:44:58,719 --> 01:45:01,360
anything about the project in thailand i
2724
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:04,400
don't i don't know
2725
01:45:01,360 --> 01:45:08,320
the project in thailand i mean
2726
01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:11,679
the reason that i i need to look
2727
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:14,480
i look at their documents a bit right um
2728
01:45:11,679 --> 01:45:15,600
but i need to look closer into them the
2729
01:45:14,480 --> 01:45:18,159
reason is
2730
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:19,760
mostly to attract tourism uh to attract
2731
01:45:18,159 --> 01:45:23,280
tourists
2732
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:26,480
because the thing that very many people
2733
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:27,119
are disappointed in and and this is
2734
01:45:26,480 --> 01:45:30,800
something that
2735
01:45:27,119 --> 01:45:33,440
i i i kind of felt a very sensitive
2736
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:34,080
extreme sense of disappointment because
2737
01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:37,119
so i'm
2738
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:38,719
from the region i'm from uh city to the
2739
01:45:37,119 --> 01:45:41,920
west of
2740
01:45:38,719 --> 01:45:42,480
balti i grew up in bali um about two
2741
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:45,760
hours
2742
01:45:42,480 --> 01:45:46,560
uh drive uh western xi'an one of the
2743
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:48,880
things that people
2744
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:50,400
always talk about is that oh shia is
2745
01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:54,320
like this famous you know
2746
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:57,119
capital right how many dynasties are
2747
01:45:54,320 --> 01:45:57,600
like 10 dynasties but when you actually
2748
01:45:57,119 --> 01:45:59,679
go
2749
01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:01,840
go to xi'an there's like nothing in the
2750
01:45:59,679 --> 01:46:04,400
city there's just the dianda
2751
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:05,520
there's just what that one pagoda
2752
01:46:04,400 --> 01:46:08,880
nothing else to
2753
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:11,679
see uh and the sites are
2754
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:13,600
all outside the city either the
2755
01:46:11,679 --> 01:46:15,360
terracotta warriors
2756
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:17,840
or the uh you know if you go to the
2757
01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:19,280
mausoleum it's very far or if you go to
2758
01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:22,480
uh the famine temple
2759
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:24,400
right these famous and and the the what
2760
01:46:22,480 --> 01:46:27,600
into the pond uh were you know
2761
01:46:24,400 --> 01:46:30,239
in persian young consort young
2762
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:30,719
supposedly based these places these
2763
01:46:30,239 --> 01:46:33,920
famous
2764
01:46:30,719 --> 01:46:36,880
sites are all were all outside the city
2765
01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:37,520
i think the goal is to attract tourists
2766
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:41,199
inside
2767
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:43,600
to into the city to because
2768
01:46:41,199 --> 01:46:45,520
in the 90s uh when i was growing up
2769
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:46,320
there's nothing to see in the diamond
2770
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:49,280
gong
2771
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:51,440
in the diamond palace it's just a dirt
2772
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:53,360
stump
2773
01:46:51,440 --> 01:46:54,639
now obviously it becomes a site where
2774
01:46:53,360 --> 01:46:57,600
people can see can go
2775
01:46:54,639 --> 01:46:59,520
and inside there's like a miniature re
2776
01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:01,040
reproduction of the palace so you can
2777
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:04,239
sort of walk around and
2778
01:47:01,040 --> 01:47:06,320
you know dress as as a town person so i
2779
01:47:04,239 --> 01:47:07,040
think it's mostly for that uh for that
2780
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:10,480
kind of uh
2781
01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:14,080
kind of thing right so our last question
2782
01:47:10,480 --> 01:47:15,760
uh from uh professor mainly again uh did
2783
01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:17,920
any jing yuan literata
2784
01:47:15,760 --> 01:47:20,840
assume a perspective different from
2785
01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:22,000
central plains perspective of the tang
2786
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:26,000
song
2787
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:29,119
i would say the only person that i see
2788
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:31,600
uh uh doing this uh and
2789
01:47:29,119 --> 01:47:32,719
again you know the the gene sources is
2790
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:36,159
hard because there
2791
01:47:32,719 --> 01:47:38,400
isn't any one a one one
2792
01:47:36,159 --> 01:47:40,000
uh uh written source about chiang mai ng
2793
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:43,119
energy but we can see
2794
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:45,679
from the perspective of loya tincion who
2795
01:47:43,119 --> 01:47:46,239
wrote the libyan challenge who collected
2796
01:47:45,679 --> 01:47:49,520
uh
2797
01:47:46,239 --> 01:47:50,719
the this this gazetteer of chiang and by
2798
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:52,639
categories
2799
01:47:50,719 --> 01:47:54,239
people don't usually value this book
2800
01:47:52,639 --> 01:47:56,280
very much because
2801
01:47:54,239 --> 01:47:58,320
it's usually seen as a
2802
01:47:56,280 --> 01:48:00,960
re-characterization i mean he says this
2803
01:47:58,320 --> 01:48:02,880
as much in the preface that i'm just
2804
01:48:00,960 --> 01:48:06,080
trying to re-categorize
2805
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:08,239
uh book into categories
2806
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:10,719
in like turn it into almost like a lay
2807
01:48:08,239 --> 01:48:14,880
shoe so that it's easy for you to read
2808
01:48:10,719 --> 01:48:18,239
but he does add stuff uh to sum into
2809
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:21,119
and the most interesting thing he adds
2810
01:48:18,239 --> 01:48:21,440
is the last chapter of the book which is
2811
01:48:21,119 --> 01:48:23,920
a
2812
01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:24,719
catalog of the stone inscriptions that
2813
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:28,560
he written
2814
01:48:24,719 --> 01:48:31,520
he witnessed in the region and including
2815
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:32,480
the ones that he saw in bathing so in
2816
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:36,560
that sense
2817
01:48:32,480 --> 01:48:40,239
um i do see that you know
2818
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:42,159
as a local he was for a regional
2819
01:48:40,239 --> 01:48:43,600
he was the teacher at the uh the
2820
01:48:42,159 --> 01:48:48,080
provincial college
2821
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:50,800
um from his perspective
2822
01:48:48,080 --> 01:48:51,920
what he what he was interested in was
2823
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:55,280
quite different from
2824
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:58,159
what uh uh what the you know the uh
2825
01:48:55,280 --> 01:48:59,440
uh emperor you know the kublai khan i
2826
01:48:58,159 --> 01:49:01,440
suspect
2827
01:48:59,440 --> 01:49:03,040
was probably not very interested in this
2828
01:49:01,440 --> 01:49:05,679
like chinese literary
2829
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:06,080
right uh so in that in that sense yes
2830
01:49:05,679 --> 01:49:08,880
this
2831
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:10,000
the gene situation you still uh i still
2832
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:12,800
need to um
2833
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:14,000
read a bit more uh gene sort of collects
2834
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:15,760
collect
2835
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:18,480
collection of writings to to try to
2836
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:18,480
recover that
2837
01:49:18,880 --> 01:49:22,480
okay i think we're at the end of our
2838
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:25,199
questions thank you so much
2839
01:49:22,480 --> 01:49:27,199
professor for answering our question and
2840
01:49:25,199 --> 01:49:30,480
thank you so much for taking the time
2841
01:49:27,199 --> 01:49:31,199
to show us such a rich and diverse array
2842
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:33,760
of
2843
01:49:31,199 --> 01:49:35,440
materials and and also for opening up
2844
01:49:33,760 --> 01:49:38,800
this new direction
2845
01:49:35,440 --> 01:49:40,800
in urban studies urban history and uh
2846
01:49:38,800 --> 01:49:42,000
thank you so much thank you very much
2847
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:44,400
and thank you for
2848
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:46,000
the the invitation and thank you all for
2849
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:48,400
the wonderful questions
2850
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:49,840
and you know if you have additional
2851
01:49:48,400 --> 01:49:52,800
questions or any other
2852
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:53,679
uh comments or or suggestions again this
2853
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:56,159
is a very
2854
01:49:53,679 --> 01:49:57,199
you know at a very early stage uh please
2855
01:49:56,159 --> 01:50:00,560
write to me
2856
01:49:57,199 --> 01:50:02,719
it's my name xinwen princeton.edu and i
2857
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:04,960
i look forward to hearing from you and
2858
01:50:02,719 --> 01:50:08,159
again thank you for you and thank you
2859
01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:10,159
professor barry and thank you uh esther
2860
01:50:08,159 --> 01:50:12,960
i hope you have a hope you have a good
2861
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:12,960
good evening