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um i'm delighted to welcome all of you to 

today's event uh gender in contemporary uh korean  

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poetry and thank you for joining us today my 

name is namhi lee i teach modern korean history  

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and also director center for korean studies 

at ucla and for those of you who may be new  

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to our center's events the center for korean 

studies promotes korean studies program at ucla  

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and engages the ucla community and the general 

public with various issues related to korea  

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and beyond by organizing lecture series symposia 

film screening and cultural events please visit  

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our website to learn more about our programs and 

events and before i introduce today's participants  

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i'd like to also make a very brief announcement 

about upcoming events that the center for korean  

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studies is organizing over the years a number of 

community activists and scholars have been working  

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on curating and translating a set of documentary 

evidence concerning the japanese imperial military  

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comfort women system into a readily 

accessible english format and on may 20th  

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our center and uci's law school and a number of 

other organizations would have a public event  

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to discuss these resources in an effort to 

enhance ongoing discussions in the legal  

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scholarly and educational communities in 

the u.s south korea and the international  

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community at large so please be sure to check 

more information on that event on our website  

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returning to today's event it is the second of the 

series called kwajang celebrating the process of  

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translating korean literature which will be about 

which will be a bilingual reading of selected  

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poems from e soho's catcalling and discussion of 

themes of gender in contemporary korean literature  

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by translators hoje and professor judy han 

today's webinar will be recorded and will  

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be made available on our center's website and 

after speaker's presentations there will be a  

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time for q a please use the q a function on the 

bottom of your screen to submit your questions  

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i also like to thank um kim our assistant director 

of the center and alex chu uh it technical support  

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coordinator at the international institute and 

of course i would like to extend my warmest  

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thanks to both soldier and judy han and 

of course also victoria cordell this  

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um uh series was actually conceived and 

organized by victoria cordell who's a second  

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year phd student in korean literature in the 

department of asian languages and cultures at ucla  

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so victoria will be saying a few words 

about the series and also introduce sojai  

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my job is to introduce professor judy han 

who is a cultural geographer an assistant  

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professor in gender studies at ucla where 

she teaches classes on gender and sexuality  

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korean studies mobilities or 

immobilities and what does this say  

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comics her research and publications uh cover a 

wide range of topics including conservative uh  

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religious formations cure activisms and protest 

cultures i especially like to thank professor han  

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for agreeing to be a discussion today as she's 

been extremely busy um with the uh series uh  

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that she's been leading the webinar series called 

feminist politics in korea and the korean diaspora  

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which it features invited guest speakers who are 

activists and filmmakers and you should definitely  

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check out this series the information can be also 

found on the cks website so without further ado  

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i'd like to hand over the microphone or 

the i don't know what you call this too

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oh victoria i'm

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this is uh as just stated our second event 

in the celebrating the process of translating  

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korean literature series and with the support of 

the center for korean studies kwatong is seeking  

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to bring to the forefront uh those dedicated 

individuals who bring works of korean literature  

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across into english and thereby enrich our field 

of study and provide materials that we can use  

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in our undergraduate classes and share these 

fantastic and prescient works of literature with  

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those who are not yet of the linguistic capability 

of reading them in their original korean  

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and it's my great pleasure to introduce our 

guest translator soldier soulja and i first met  

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and collaborated at a translation workshop held at 

uc berkeley uh when they were still an undergrad  

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and their passion for korean literature and 

their dedication to their craft has only  

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increased exponentially since then and 

led to the publication of their first  

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full-length translation yemi's poetry 

collection unexpected vanilla in 2020  

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and april 2021 sees the publication of the topic 

of our discussion today isoho's cat calling  

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and uh further in the future in may we'll see 

the uh the publication of their first full-length  

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novel to the warm horizon by xi jinyoung as well 

so a really busy year an exciting year with really

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exciting works that are dealing with 

topics of gender and topics of sexuality  

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that are um you know sorely missing from the 

extant translated works uh soja is not only a  

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talented translator but also works to broaden and 

deepen connections between translators building  

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community through their projects such as the 

translations in choca which invites translators  

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and those aspiring to translate to submit their 

own versions of one poem per quarterly issue  

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in order to highlight the versatility of 

language and of translators creativity  

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they are truly inspiring in their 

craft and their presence and i'm  

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so grateful they agreed to share their 

work here with us today thank you both

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wow thank you victoria i didn't realize you were 

going to bring up my undergraduate days but thank  

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you for that very generous introduction and also 

for organizing this wonderful series highlighting  

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translators of korean literature i'm a really 

big fan of the poet translators jack zhang  

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and sakurakayasu and i'm very honored to follow 

them in this event today it's quite a jump  

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um that we'll be attempting between italian 

and iso and i'm going to share my screen now

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yes um yeah it's quite a jump um but there is 

a connection visual experimentation to express  

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the subjective self beyond written 

language i thought i'd take advantage  

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of the particularities of a zoom lecture and share 

my most visual translations of eso's cat calling  

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i know the assignment is gender and i'll 

get to that too i promise so isoho was born  

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hyunjin being her given name in 1988 she studied 

creative writing at the seoul arts university  

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where she was taught by the poet kimesun among 

others then went on to earn an m.a in korean  

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literature from tongkuk university she won 

the newcomer award in modern poetry in 2014  

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and the kim jung literary award for her debut 

collection catcalling in 2018 and i want to  

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clarify that she is a cis hat woman and i'm 

not dead naming her by acknowledging her birth  

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name actually kyung jin the semi-fictionalized 

version of isho's past self is the protagonist  

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and one of the many speakers of catcalling 

which exposes and ridicules the quotidian  

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violences that keong jin experiences as she 

grows up and becomes an artist under patriarchy  

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the connection between form and content in this 

collection is palpable and persuasive easel blurs  

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text to recreate the after effects of physical 

abuse scatters verb conjugations into a collage  

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spells out the honorific yes with that very word 

repeated 400 sometimes and recounts verbal abuse  

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without spaces so that it takes up as little 

space as possible and we'll be looking at some  

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of those today i know i just said i'll discuss the 

visual poems but i thought i'd sort of ease us in  

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if that's even possible with this collection 

uh with the very first poem as a kind of curse  

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of her teeth i say curse because it's very 

intense and an indication of the violence to come

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[in foreign language]

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cohabitation i was born but somehow 

you were born too from one to two  

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we crumple ourselves into the cramped stroller we 

use the same uniform man room on knee the doctor  

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says i should do whatever i want so omni i'm not 

going to call you on me anymore because i love  

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you i'm going to call you by your name let's be 

real you don't deserve to be called a big sister  

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my little sister says peeling the apple with a 

knife it's the last apple so you better finish it  

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little sister points the knife at me as she 

peels the apple crunch crunch i eat the apple  

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i slit little sister's wrists for her mom says 

you slept inside her like it was your grave  

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i slit little sister's wrist again hushed 

little baby your prettiest when you sleep  

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i put her to sleep on her stomach i put her 

to sleep pulling the blanket to the top of  

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her head how cramped how cramped the 

knight is from one to two from one to two

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thank you and for this next poem i'm 

going to be um off screen for a little bit

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[in foreign language]

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is

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so so never can ever get very little  

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just the two of us let's lean on each 

other and die it'd be super great

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don't forget i'm the only one

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say

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november 21st 2014 the day she 

didn't beat me with a frying pan  

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as a result of those strikes i had the 

strange experience of briefly seeing double

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thank you could you hear me okay

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okay great i was getting a a message in the 

chat about the volume so just making sure

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so this is the third poem in cat calling and the 

moment i saw this i knew i wanted to translate it  

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i'm always looking for works that are exceptional 

in some way works that can bring something new to  

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the english language and literary scenes obviously 

this accomplishes both as you can see i don't know  

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if you can see my mouse cursor but as you can 

see there is a footnote in the korean as well  

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editors tend to be very anti-footnote when it 

comes to translations because they're seen as  

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you know pedantic and distracting but most of the 

footnotes in cat calling i did not introduce into  

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the text myself i gave a reading on open letter 

books instagram last week where i broke down my  

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translation and editorializing of the footnotes 

in xi jin's home a house of dead stones so i  

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won't really get into the footnotes today unless 

someone has a specific question later so there is  

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a very obvious blurred effect on the page and the 

footnote very kindly explicates the intent which  

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is the double vision or traumatic disorientation 

kanjin experience from her younger sister's  

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physical and verbal violence as for my kwajang i 

made two text boxes on microsoft word and overlaid  

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them and adjusted the opacity so that the text 

wouldn't become so bold but i think the layout  

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editor open letter anthony blake might have done 

something a little bit different for the effect  

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here i have an example where my approach looks 

quite different from his and we can think about  

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the many ways visuality can be translated and 

transmuted on the left we have the poem by iso  

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in the middle the version that i turned in and 

third this is the final version that anthony  

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laid out so i think part of the process involves 

the publisher's in-house style including font  

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and spacing and had i known that anthony the 

marketing director was also the layout person  

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i probably would have annoyed him a lot more with 

little tweaks but this was a lesson for me too in  

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terms of realizing all the ways that translation 

becomes a collaboration through publication  

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at this point i want to turn our attention 

to the word onni which has already come up  

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many times in these two poems i've written an 

essay on ani called not exactly a sister for  

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modern poetry and translation the essay 

is much more nuanced than i'm going to be  

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today taking into consideration the historical 

evolution of the word but in the interest of  

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time and specific relevance to catcalling i've 

summed it up into this sort of rudimentary chart  

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omni meaning older sister is what a female 

person would call an older female person  

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out of respect and a sense of familiarity oppa 

meaning older brother is female to older male  

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nuna meaning older sister is male to older female 

tongue meaning older brother is male to older male  

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if you haven't caught on age order is a huge deal 

in korean culture this explains why keong jin is  

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and has to be on me or older sister to shidin 

the honorific title is inextricable from their  

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relationship in an interview iso said my sister 

and i are only a year apart but the role and  

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responsibilities vested by that single year are 

so different eldest daughters are pressured to  

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be unconditionally patient i wanted to speak 

about the unfairness of this so you can start to  

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understand the weight of this word as a symbol 

of power and responsibility and even violence  

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at the same time non-binary koreans such 

as myself are excluded from this lexicon  

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or is it an exclusion part of my realization of my 

identity came from the fact that i don't identify  

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as either an ani or uppa but because i worship 

at the nightclub of munoz i do sometimes wish  

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that there were alternatives to call my queer 

korean siblings and beloved and move away from  

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anti-relationality like like nibbling 

the gender-neutral term for niece  

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nephew neologisms will be inevitably divisive some 

people will love it some people will find it corny  

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so we'll find we'll see what kinds of new 

languages surface and stick around in korean  

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those with some engagement with k-pop will 

know that these four terms are also romantic  

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and sexual terms despite or because of the incest 

taboo it seems like lots of familial words are  

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recycled into sex like daddy mamacita and so 

forth so it's not unique to korean culture but  

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i find it interesting that the power dynamic is 

slightly less hierarchical than the parent-child  

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relationship i made a quick slide of some 

pieces of culture from the last three years  

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or so containing the word unni in the title this 

evidences the popularization of feminism as well  

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as less mainstream lesbian narratives because only 

simultaneously reveals the speaker and addressee  

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to be female it's a powerful word for suffix 

and straight women seeking sisterhood alike  

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it's politically powerful and also convenient 

marketing wise to be able to signal in just one  

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word that it's quote made by women for women 

and living in korea i've been noticing cases  

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of localization which is the process of 

adapting certain products for the target culture  

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involving on me as well i wrote about my 

sister the serial killer being translated  

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as annie i killed a man in my essay and sort 

of the incongruence of the title and content  

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but what a title right and the next screenshot 

i have is about ocean's eight because the korean  

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media really rendered the cast of ocean's eight on 

nice to make them more familiar and approachable  

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to the korean female audience these are some of 

the reviews and articles written on that movie  

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and one usage of ani even comes from warner 

brothers korea and it's about some hat giveaway um  

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so maybe you get my sort of jadedness over this 

word but nonetheless i hope that it's clear  

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why it's become such a go-to word for feminist 

culture and now after ani we have oppa who in the  

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landscape of k-pop and k-dramas is a much more 

familiar figure but you haven't seen oppa like  

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this unless you've been gas-lit by a korean man 

which i dearly hope you have not been the unnamed  

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male speaker of oppa likes that type of girl is 

indeed referring to himself in the third person  

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which is cringy as hell regardless of how you feel 

about oppa in general but i wanted to highlight  

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this poem because one i appreciate the way izoho's 

night his words take up less space in her poetry  

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and two i might have used variations of sister in 

my translation had it not been for this oppa poem  

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because this oppa doesn't translate to 

older brother in the biological sense i  

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decided to bring both oppa and ani into my english 

translation again i will cover my camera for this

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[in foreign language]

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what are you trying to say if you're feeling 

sick go cook yourself porridge why call me i'm  

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sick of you you want to cuss me out huh go ahead 

what are you afraid of i gave you everything  

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but nothing satisfies you this is why i don't like 

depressed girls hey stop whining and talk straight  

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and think it over before you talk have i been 

dating a stupid girl that's not it you're smart  

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i can have a conversation with you so don't act 

like you know something i don't oppa will explain  

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everything to you one by one i'm doing this all 

for you hey you don't believe me i'm just kidding  

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why are you glaring like that i've told you 

before but it's because you're stubborn and  

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sensitive that our romance turned sour any other 

man would have dumped you already i'm letting you  

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off the hook again don't do this again if you're 

having such a hard time drink yourself to sleep  

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you're good at that you're gonna shake it off 

anyway can't we just hang up happy now i couldn't  

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stand to look at your outfit earlier buy yourself 

some clothes when you get paid not from an outlet  

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mall but something brand name so you won't [ __ 

] embarrass me hey only i'm telling you this you  

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can't find another man like me anywhere it's 

not that oppa changed you changed you used to  

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at least pretend to get dolled up but i guess 

you don't even try these days anyway i'm busy  

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can't you understand that if you don't have a job 

why don't you get a hobby watch tv stop watching  

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me i like a woman who's productive what are you 

going to do with what i did today stop asking me  

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do you not trust me you're so obsessed i feel like 

i'm going to lose my mind every time you do this  

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this is why all those guys dumped you only i'd 

stay with you all this time don't take this the  

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wrong way you think lovers can't say stuff like 

this to each other i'm closer to you than anyone  

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else in the world i'm the only one who thinks 

of you don't forget it so be nice to your oppa

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thank you

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i can see judy laughing um if you couldn't tell 

that was 100 me reading with my voice pitch down  

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in garageband um i my plan was to sort of do 

a drag performance where i'm like lip syncing  

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but i i sort of ran out of energy this week 

um so unfortunately i couldn't wow you with  

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um some drag makeup and whatnot but maybe 

maybe at a future reading i can accomplish  

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that plan um i have one more poem to 

read i want to check the chat okay

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[in foreign language]

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a musical variation for the fighting spirit 

you would grab because you're grabbing you will  

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probably grab would you have grabbed will you grab 

i'm not sure you grab i heard to grab you grab ya  

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though you grabbed you would have grabbed or 

if you had grub even when you grabbed you grab  

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if you were to have grab you must have grabbed 

you're grabbing huh you're garb and you will  

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grab butt you grab in yet you must have grab you 

must have grabbed yeah oh you must have grabbed  

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if you had grab while you would totally grab 

while you're grabbing not even grabbing you  

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who'd grabbed you're totally gonna grab you 

might have grabbed after all even if you'd grab  

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if you were to grab you had to have grabbed 

your grab but then again sir you grabbed me  

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grab me i know you had grab even if you grab 

even while grabbing you must have grabbed but  

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should you grab you must have grabbed plus in 

order to grab you grab i see would you have grab  

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00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:55,680

must have grabbed ya you're grabbing butt you'll 

grab huh if you grab if you were to grab you grab  

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00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:04,240

duh because you grab me you grab if you had grab 

even if you had grab you grabbed i'm telling you  

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you had to grab you either grab or you grab 

and you grabbed her too the more you grab  

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because you grab you grab me because you 

grab yeah you'd grab you grab butt you grab  

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or even if you were to grab yeah you'd grab you 

do grab you did grab you who grabs thank you um

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i read this as another visual representation of 

the disorientation following a traumatic event  

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um first i know that the korean verb is to 

touch bandita i accepted my editor anastasia's  

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suggestion to change it to grab because a it's 

somehow more violent but also in the it also  

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innocuous in the context of like grabbing lunch 

grabbing drinks um b i felt like touch could carry  

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sort of a positive connotation and and these 

covet times and see i was translating when  

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grabbing by the was still very much part of 

the national conversation and so that verb  

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was unfortunately resonant for me and korean 

has a bunch of conjugations based on tense mood  

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and honorifics without specifying the subject or 

object so you can imagine that there's no gender  

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specified here either it's entirely up to the 

reader whether it's a he or she or they or you  

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grabbing me you him her or them and understanding 

the heteronormative context easel was writing from  

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i seriously considered him grabbing her 

or more seriously mixing all pronouns but  

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since i read it as a singular traumatic incident 

i also like how the second person makes it more  

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confrontational and implicates even the 

reader in the violent act i added these  

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extra words like yeah or da because i needed 

to somehow come up with 72 discreet phrases  

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and i wanted to differentiate them in tones 

similar to the way the honorifics do but sort  

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of in the opposite direction in korean there's 

the formal high banja nita informal high manja  

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informal low manja and plain form mandata 

and that's all without changing the tense  

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00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:35,920

that's just the levels of formality speaking 

of honorifics they is the formal yes which  

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is why i rendered it as yes mom in relation 

to the title i did consider yes mom and dad  

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00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:50,160

but it became very difficult to fit in one page so 

sometimes translation choices really do come down  

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to pragmatism in that way and each book you 

know presents a different set of challenges  

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and thrills for the translator and catcalling was 

certainly a roller coaster to translate last year  

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00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,640

i wish i could have read the chat while screen 

sharing but i hope that you got a sense of all  

242

00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:15,040

the twists and turns from my experience and now 

i'm very excited to speak with professor han hello

243

00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:26,080

um hi i'm i i i think part of me is wondering 

if i if i'm even allowed to laugh um  

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add some of these uh the both the poems in the 

original and the translations but thank you  

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00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:40,000

thank you so much this has been such an amazing 

experience in immersing uh in the reading  

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and now uh talking with you i'm i you know i 

i'm just so fascinated by your discussion of ani  

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um and the language of queer kinship uh so i 

actually really want to start there because  

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i don't really care about no just anything 

else um no that's not true but you know the  

249

00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:06,240

gender pronouns in translation um like 

in such this had head to a patriarchal  

250

00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:12,000

you know binary gender context of of 

korea and korean culture cultural customs  

251

00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:19,760

and the phenomenal interest in feminism uh in 

recent years and of course the backlash there  

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00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:28,160

is so much in both the politics and and poetics 

of gender and sexuality and the the names we  

253

00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,200

call each other um this is such an interesting 

topic for korean studies and translational  

254

00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:40,720

studies i think there's a lot we can do in queer 

theory um to think through some of these issues  

255

00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:47,360

in translation um but i wanted to actually 

ask you to say a little bit more about ani as  

256

00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:53,600

a sexualized term um i know this is something 

that you wrote about a little bit in the essay  

257

00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:59,600

that you mentioned but it also comes up in this 

discussion too in the idolizing of the only  

258

00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:05,920

figures in some of the ways that you've shown 

there's also the idolizing and desiring um the

259

00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,520

i don't know if it's necessarily an 

older woman but it's it is an older  

260

00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:20,240

yeah it's a it's both incestuous and 

uh you know sapphic lesbian nick and  

261

00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:26,240

also something other than that it's there's 

something very korean about this kind of same  

262

00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:32,720

gender you know identification slash desire 

in familial terms um can you say a little  

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00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:38,560

bit more about this because there's a lot 

of this in the poems too yeah for sure um  

264

00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:47,040

in this context of cat calling it is the only 

figure is limited to the familial right xi jin and  

265

00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:53,360

counting our biological sisters but then there's 

also there's like sexualized violence happening  

266

00:38:53,360 --> 00:39:00,720

between the mother and daughter between the 

sisters so it's sort of this complicated

267

00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:09,840

uh relationship that i don't know if easel 

whole um intended us to read necessarily in  

268

00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:17,040

a queer context but she i think wanted to sort of 

heighten every form of violence possible between  

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00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:25,520

two human beings for sure um as for ani as a 

figure of desire what's funny is that every time  

270

00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,840

i talk about this in an interview 

it gets cut out for some reason  

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00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:37,200

really no no no like what i'm about to say 

which is the personal anecdote that i've  

272

00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:44,560

never dated an older korean person i see and 

i find this very relevant to my perspective  

273

00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:51,280

right like i even before i you know identified 

as non-binary um i never really had the chance  

274

00:39:52,240 --> 00:40:02,480

of anyone older to me you know a woman older to me 

on me and i wonder if that limits my sort of own  

275

00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:09,520

propensity to see and on me as a sexualized term 

so when i should bring up the afraid of that thing  

276

00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:17,840

like somehow it always gets edited out in post um 

but i i have um talked to different friends who  

277

00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:26,240

are you know who do i identify as cis lesbian or 

cis bisexual and they do call their partners on me  

278

00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:33,920

and because they're in a romantic and 

sexual relationship that term also becomes  

279

00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:40,480

sort of heightened erotically right and which 

i've always i mean you have your you know  

280

00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,440

i mean i think i also find that to be very uh 

jarring uh to imagine a romantic relationship  

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00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:54,080

where there would be someone calling the other ani 

but of course happens you know of course happens  

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00:40:54,080 --> 00:41:00,480

daddy happens i mean of course right right yeah 

but i think but i think ani has held up especially  

283

00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:06,880

in a kind of a global sisterhood feminist context 

where there is this isn't supposed to be about  

284

00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:13,360

romantic alliances or romantic relationships 

but but really much more about uh shared um  

285

00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:20,480

you know rage against patriarchy so there's 

a there's something so subversive in in  

286

00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:28,800

opening that possibility with just even that 

use of the term in queer context yeah and the  

287

00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:36,240

most prominent sort of um i don't know if 

they would use this term necessarily but um  

288

00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,680

lesbian and queer women inclusive 

organization in korea is called  

289

00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:51,280

a new network yeah you know yeah so it's 

definitely used in both assist political  

290

00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,240

sisterhood context as well as like we we call 

each other on the in bed kind of thing right  

291

00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:03,520

yes i'm gonna have nightmares about this 

again i'm and of course among gay men too  

292

00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,560

yeah so yeah i mean there's and the the thing 

the interesting thing about oni too um and the  

293

00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:16,640

way that you're engaging in in translation 

uh with this with this work is also that  

294

00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:26,560

only is is the naming of of relations within a 

family hierarchy um it's naming of one's location  

295

00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:33,120

um simply by just like in the uh the examples 

that you've shown just by calling someone udni  

296

00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:40,720

you're also locating yourself um in the hierarchy 

so in many ways it speaks to the heart of what's  

297

00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:46,080

conventionally often you know the biggest 

question in translating korean to english  

298

00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:54,560

the the subject the i um all kinds of ways that 

ani actually helps name and locate the speaker um  

299

00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:01,040

i mean so all the it's all the different ways that 

you translated that location whether through using  

300

00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:08,560

the word on knee capitalized or big sister little 

sister you i mean can you walk us through some  

301

00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:17,440

of some of that dilemma it's i mean it must have 

been such a myriad like possibilities before you  

302

00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:28,480

yeah um i guess when i made the executive decision 

to introduce these korean terms into the text  

303

00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:35,600

um i then had many options as you just 

pointed out i had older sister big sis  

304

00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:41,040

omni sort of these three things and then 

we i also had the name kyongjin so um  

305

00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:49,120

once i opened up myself to those possibilities 

then i sort of had all these tools um to  

306

00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:57,520

experiment with rhythm like i would see oh like 

in this line or in this poem it's better if i  

307

00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:04,720

say big sis you know or you know i try to think 

about um how the word is presented in relation  

308

00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:11,600

to the sentence so if there's another sort of 

set of korean words you know um place names  

309

00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:17,840

then maybe i would use sister instead of on 

me to sort of lessen the ratio of korean words  

310

00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:24,960

in a line right so yeah yeah in an english context 

i could also see that yeah that makes sense um the  

311

00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:34,800

other way um that i think the these hierarchies 

and um gender politics and pronouns come into play  

312

00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:43,200

is in the use of you um in the cohabitation in 

the poem that you read too just when the younger  

313

00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:49,680

sister says i won't call you andy anymore you 

don't you don't deserve that um clearly that it's  

314

00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:56,480

the kind of dynamic where any is also seen as uh 

you know a qualification that actually one could  

315

00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:03,920

be dispossessed of um as well so so in places 

where like um i think it's actually probably most  

316

00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:14,000

clear in i'm looking at my notes in cohabitation 

but in other places too where i lost my place

317

00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:26,080

yeah um when u is uh when u is used when u is 

used as the the object uh do you think that  

318

00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:34,160

uh takes away from any nuance or ambiguity 

that exists in korean where the you remains  

319

00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:43,680

unnamed in the case of cohabitation because 

you just put it so beautifully like it is a  

320

00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:51,120

dispossessing of a title or sort of a ranking 

in relation right to the younger sister i wanted  

321

00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,160

to capture that in the tone of the sentence  

322

00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,800

right like i'm not going to call like you 

don't deserve that you know to sort of um

323

00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:12,160

uh i'm blanking on the word i want to use but uh 

yeah sort of use that tonally to show that this u  

324

00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:17,200

is not just a simple you that it is in english 

right and just because we don't use honorifics  

325

00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:25,040

in english doesn't mean that we don't have all 

these hidden hierarchies and like yeah disparaging  

326

00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,840

tones against each other yeah i mean except 

you know in conversation we usually have a  

327

00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:36,000

chance to explain these things right i mean i 

i remember immigrating to um to the states when  

328

00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,720

when i was 12 and i remember the first day of my 

younger brother and sister because i'm the oldest  

329

00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:47,520

sister and the it's yeah um when my younger 

siblings used an english sentence and said and  

330

00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:54,160

used the word you in like it was it was something 

like probably like why did you do that and then it  

331

00:46:54,160 --> 00:47:00,800

was like you did did you just call me you i mean 

it's it's this confrontation that um that that  

332

00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:08,240

is so everyday in the english language and yet in 

the korean context when when the words are like no

333

00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,000

it's it's a it's not just you 

how do you i mean how do you  

334

00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:20,000

what are some of yeah we have tang 

which is the formal extremely um  

335

00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:27,920

respectful version of that so anything lower 

than tungsten becomes immediately sort of  

336

00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,640

it could be insulting but also it could be a 

very familiar kind of thing like oh we're really  

337

00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:39,840

good friends so i can call you you right so so 

going back to the they pronoun the gender pronoun  

338

00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:48,800

um i know that you had referred to they in korean 

um yeah right so do you think that could also  

339

00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:54,480

border that sort of you know both pejorative you 

know condescending but also intimate and familiar  

340

00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:00,320

yeah i actually i want to pull up my you 

had a slide right yeah a slide on that um  

341

00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,080

my presentation got closed out 

and i'm i'm trying to find it like  

342

00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,680

so forgive me i love the infographic so i knew 

about infographic i'm going to have to steal  

343

00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:20,480

it for every korean lecture oh yeah feel free i 

mean it's it's like janky emoji i love it um but  

344

00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:28,960

i'm glad you enjoyed it i am pulling it up heater 

is being slow but um yeah i actually have another  

345

00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:38,240

thing that i wanted to talk about with day um i 

what i find hilarious and heartwarming is that um  

346

00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:46,880

if i just explain the singular day to koreans as 

a grammatical concept they love it they're like  

347

00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:54,000

so down with it because the singular they 

just exist you know as a concept in korean  

348

00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,120

so that's sort of the approach that i take 

nowadays like in in relation to my own gender  

349

00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:05,440

identity if i'm just like oh you know we have coup 

in korean they're like oh yeah it's kind of like  

350

00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:12,320

yeah it's sort of i mean it is like a survival 

tactic for me right to sort of introduce myself  

351

00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:20,560

in that roundabout way but i found that people are 

quite excited to learn that english you know we we  

352

00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:27,120

have another option beyond he and she and that 

this is a discussion and there's room for change  

353

00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:33,600

yeah yeah for sure um and ivan jihad the korean 

performance artist that i mentioned in my aniase  

354

00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,560

at the end um she has another essay i just 

remembered it this morning where she's like  

355

00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:46,400

you know um i'm wildly paraphrasing her but 

she's like i can't believe i was colonized by  

356

00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:55,520

the english language into dividing everyone into 

he and she and like now all my queer korean friend  

357

00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,480

career korean american friends are looking down on 

me for like not catching up with the times like i  

358

00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:07,360

can't believe you guys colonized me and then like 

left into liberation all by yourselves so there's  

359

00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:16,240

like sort of this i guess sort of delay um in 

how queer language is transmuted um so it's been  

360

00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:21,760

an interesting conversation in korea yeah yeah i 

would imagine and so i mean it's it's clear to me  

361

00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:28,320

that you're in conversation with not just this 

particular book of poetry but with uh feminist  

362

00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:36,560

poetry with uh feminist discussions you know a 

popular discourse um broader like can you can  

363

00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:43,600

you share a little bit about how you came across 

this particular poet this book this project when  

364

00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:48,640

i mean you can't possibly translate everything 

you find interesting so when when does it become  

365

00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:59,840

the next year of your life um i wish it was a year 

i played it just so quickly i had like oh really  

366

00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:07,840

tight deadlines i translated this in about two and 

a half months oh wow yeah um and then i promptly  

367

00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:14,800

fell ill i do not recommend it um 

but like i said in the beginning um  

368

00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:22,000

you know i read a lot of interesting things 

but some some things really stand out in  

369

00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:30,480

in the sort of pile of books that i have and i 

think about like what would be most interesting  

370

00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:39,360

to read in a slightly different context right 

and cat calling definitely was that for me  

371

00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:47,840

um not only the visuality of these poems but it's 

so korean in this way uh usual herself like one  

372

00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:53,040

of the first times i met her she's like you know 

i'm so korean i'm like from the chosen dynasty  

373

00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:03,600

what does she mean by that you think um well 

it's it's definitely sort of a millennial korean  

374

00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:09,280

thing to be self-deprecating like oh like i'm so 

behind and like backwards that i'm from the chosen  

375

00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:16,560

dynasty so it's like very korean humor um but you 

know if you read through this collection there are  

376

00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:25,120

a lot of very specific korean references 

to tata to specific place places in seoul  

377

00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:32,640

across korea in a way that my first poetry 

collection unexpected vanilla like it's completely  

378

00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:40,960

not in that way so i i like finding projects that 

even contradict each other and what they're trying  

379

00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:46,880

to say about korean-ness because you know korean 

poets aren't trying to represent korea in in the  

380

00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:55,680

way that dysport poets often feel the need to 

um but i like how sort of my own body of works  

381

00:52:56,720 --> 00:53:04,880

become a very complex tapestry of korean-ness so i 

i like how i got to sort of share that aspect yeah  

382

00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,680

i i'm i think i've i remember seeing 

somewhere that you're you identify as 1.5  

383

00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:14,240

are you you're korean-american in the background 

background right did you grow up in the states  

384

00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:19,920

i i immigrated when i was seven so a little 

bit younger than you when i moved over but  

385

00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:26,160

yes my citizenship is um the us that's i 

wasn't asking about your citizenship status  

386

00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:36,080

of you know of uh just looking to korea 

for korean-ness or korean like passport  

387

00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:41,840

koreans looking for signs of things that represent 

korean-ness um i think that's also an interesting  

388

00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:50,240

um comment in this context because especially 

because this this work is always so irreverent  

389

00:53:50,960 --> 00:54:00,480

it's like it is just so um just graphic 

um and uh perverse and uh and violent  

390

00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:07,920

um and uh despite what she might say about 

herself also just fundam like just deeply  

391

00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:14,640

and intrinsically in some ways anti-traditional 

um yeah there's there's something just unruly  

392

00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:22,800

uh just unkempt about her whole way of uh 

narrating and ex and describing her experiences  

393

00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:28,640

and her relationships uh do you did you 

struggle with any any of that like was  

394

00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,760

it did did at any point during those months 

that you spent time intimate time with with  

395

00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:39,680

the poor with the poems did you think this 

is just too much i i mean i lost my mind

396

00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:49,680

without mincing words i mean because maybe 

because it was such an intense translating  

397

00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:56,480

um period like i was really just living 

and breathing this collection right and  

398

00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:02,720

it did get very overwhelming but i think that 

level of intensity also helped me because i  

399

00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:09,200

was so in it that i was sort of like you know i 

have to sort of process all this violent language  

400

00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:20,320

through my own body and make it convincing so it 

was overwhelming um but i'm glad i'm glad it's out  

401

00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:27,600

yeah and do you think um you struggled with maybe 

striking a balance between what is graphic in one  

402

00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:34,720

language with the the same level of graphicness or 

impact in the other language that i mean i can't  

403

00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:39,600

imagine i i mean probably later on i'm gonna have 

to ask you why are you translating poetry like  

404

00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:45,280

for someone who doesn't translate poetry i cannot 

imagine a more difficult task this is incredible  

405

00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:53,840

to me that you even do this but that's that's for 

later um my own masochism to me questions yeah i  

406

00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:59,440

don't i don't know there's something incredibly 

creative about about this process but yeah but  

407

00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,560

what about that balance between what is you 

know what remains uh ambivalent what remains  

408

00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:13,760

graphic on the one hand how do you translate 

that into the other well you read korean also  

409

00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:20,240

so i i kind of want to flip the question back to 

you and ask you did you feel that the impact was  

410

00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:27,840

um equal or at least similar in like across 

the two versions i think i think it they vary  

411

00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:33,600

yeah with yeah with some poems i think they were 

more impactful i don't usually use that word but  

412

00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:41,760

um in english um and you know and then sometimes 

it's just so perverse in korean um but in english

413

00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:51,280

like the word you i mean i think for me like i'm 

i'm sort of old school that way you know for like  

414

00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:59,520

the idea that someone for instance would talk to 

their parents and use diga or digabonde or like  

415

00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:05,840

even even the ani was a year older there's 

a there's a transgression that's involved in  

416

00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:13,520

even those small acts of linguistic you know 

confrontation right yeah and now that i know that  

417

00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:20,800

you're the firstborn in your family i'm just like 

extra how dare you yeah yeah yeah oh that's a good  

418

00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:27,440

point yeah hmm i mean so it's not just cuss words 

right and it's not just throwing around words like  

419

00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:32,240

uh [ __ ] and [ __ ] like it's not just about 

that there's there's so much built into the  

420

00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,240

the structures of translation yeah so 

how do you how do you do it what are  

421

00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:46,240

well if i sort of provoke the admit response that 

you i feel like maybe i failed judy in some way  

422

00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,400

no no no that's not what i mean man isn't the 

difference i thought the difference was like  

423

00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,800

sometimes greater than others sometimes they were 

like right on par and then sometimes it's just  

424

00:57:54,800 --> 00:58:01,520

like you know different yeah no i'm just kidding 

but i i think i my my intention is always to  

425

00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:07,840

sort of keep them level um and like you pointed 

out sometimes the cultural context is just too  

426

00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:16,240

big for me to achieve that in just one line and 

of course there are certain you know footnotes  

427

00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:22,240

throughout this collection that sort of um 

contextualizes certain things for the reader but  

428

00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:27,920

with the you i felt like it would be too extra 

for me to like go in there with the footnote and  

429

00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:33,760

say you know this is like that's an insulting 

curve right right no that's yeah definitely  

430

00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:38,560

don't do that i mean and i think and i think the 

reason i keep bringing that up is because i'm  

431

00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:44,560

i'm just confronted with this realization that 

there is no one-to-one replication uh you know  

432

00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:50,560

transference of meaning in translation and i think 

that's what i was so struck by your work with um  

433

00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:59,200

the idea that multiple translators can translate 

the same poem in multiple ways and for that to be  

434

00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:06,320

okay you know what they mean that this wasn't 

about a competition like to win the best  

435

00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:12,160

translation that this wasn't to try to get at the 

most authentic or truthful or faithful meaning  

436

00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:19,840

um i thought that was just so brilliant yeah thank 

you for bringing up choca i had no idea you would  

437

00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:29,840

also look into that um yeah i mean i was in a 

translation program where it was very much of  

438

00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:36,240

the like we must get to the essence of the source 

text but then after a while especially while doing  

439

00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:43,760

poetry you you realize like the korean is written 

ambiguously and it's meant to be read that way  

440

00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:49,200

and there are multiple interpretations even in 

untranslated works you know i think we turn to  

441

00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:57,680

poetry because it is so nuanced and ambiguous 

and mysterious and multivalent and so i  

442

00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:03,040

decided to start this project where we could sort 

of freely pursue all these different directions  

443

01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:10,000

without canceling each other out so yeah thank 

you for bringing that up yeah do you see a lot of  

444

01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:18,160

room growth potential do you see a lot of interest 

in translating poetry i definitely yeah our last  

445

01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:27,680

um issue we had 12 different translations of one 

poem so it's yeah steadily growing yeah as their  

446

01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:32,640

project goes on i mean it's interesting because 

i'm probably more likely to do a translation  

447

01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:38,480

project of declarations and manifestos and you 

know press conference statements which are of  

448

01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:43,600

course in a different genre but in some ways there 

are the kinds of nuances and cultural contexts  

449

01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:52,160

um that one deals with in any genre um i would 

imagine challenges exist across the board and what  

450

01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:59,040

do you think are some of your biggest challenges 

in translating not just poetry but poetry with a  

451

01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:04,640

lot of political teeth a lot of political currency 

and also just kind of under in the spotlight  

452

01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:13,840

yeah i i want to deliver the emotional impact 

that the source did had on me so i sort of want  

453

01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:23,200

to replicate my experience of reading the poem 

and sometimes it involves reorganizing footnotes  

454

01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:30,000

you know changing words from you know um 

no to your name or something like that so  

455

01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:39,920

yeah i i do i also translate non-poetry and 

non-literature i do some technical translation as  

456

01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:45,680

well so i i can sort of contrast that personally 

between the different projects that i do and  

457

01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:53,920

speaking of manifestos and manuals um i saw on 

your calendar for feminist politics you have  

458

01:01:53,920 --> 01:02:02,160

an upcoming event with hijin shim from survive 

and punish then i actually trend this was my  

459

01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:10,080

only project that i've done um from english into 

korean so the opposite way for me and i translated  

460

01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:19,040

uh sort of a manual for queer survivors of 

domestic abuse no way too that the project  

461

01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:25,600

oh you did that yeah oh did you read yeah the yeah 

i've read it and i've i've attended that they're  

462

01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:32,000

yeah with their workshops yeah yeah so when i saw 

that i was like wow what a small world it is a  

463

01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:38,480

small world i i've never met in in person we just 

became twitter friends and then i ended up doing  

464

01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:49,440

this gig for them so even with that project um i 

i definitely use the terminology like sort of the

465

01:02:51,600 --> 01:03:01,840

you know the casual vocab uh slang of the 

career community here um so i i try to  

466

01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:10,720

like in addition to paying close attention to 

the text itself i try to just be mindful and  

467

01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:18,000

curious about things that are happening um right 

now around me right it seems like that's also  

468

01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:25,120

advice you could give to aspiring translators 

that you don't just study translation yeah i read  

469

01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:32,320

i mean now nowadays less so but what back when 

i live in the states actually right now i'm so i  

470

01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:38,320

brought up my citizenship because it's i have this 

sort of dual immigrant status of like i'm a korean  

471

01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:45,120

american back in korea but back when i lived in 

the states attending uc berkeley as an undergrad  

472

01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:50,720

i had um a twitter account where i would just 

follow p i didn't tweet out anything but i just  

473

01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:57,920

followed a bunch of queer korean activists and 

just like people and that's sort of how i picked  

474

01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:06,240

up a lot of um queer terminologies that are being 

used you know outside of academia or you know in  

475

01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:11,760

everyday contexts so that kind of knowledge 

definitely paid off once i got here right and  

476

01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:17,840

even people were talking about yeah no for sure 

and and among feminists too they're the kind of  

477

01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:25,440

um activist jargon or or slang the colloquial 

language that also appears in like throughout  

478

01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:31,120

this portrait collection too um you must have 

to make some decisions on how to match that to  

479

01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:36,640

perhaps what is current in english do you have an 

example of that in in this collection you think  

480

01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:44,480

i don't know i mean because like cat calling 

is not exactly one of those terms but that is  

481

01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,880

that is certainly an equivalent in 

both no that's uh that's such a good  

482

01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,960

example oh my screen sharing disappeared 

i was going to get to the t chair  

483

01:04:54,400 --> 01:05:00,000

eventually i'm sorry eventually no no no why are 

you please don't apologize um i should have gotten  

484

01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:07,120

through that but uh what were you talking about 

cat calling so uh the korean title is kekkoring  

485

01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:16,800

transliteration of the english into hunger and 

i actually almost changed the title in english  

486

01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:26,960

translation um because quoting is less of um 

like it is the term that's used in korea by  

487

01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:32,640

people who are already aware of the phenomenon 

but catcalling is less a thing in korea as  

488

01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:41,920

a form of you know street harassment um am i gonna 

go into this i mean the sex crimes here are more  

489

01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:49,120

digital based i'm sure you've been reading 

the news yeah all the more moroccan  

490

01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:56,400

cameras in like public restrooms and i don't know 

to what extent i should be explaining this for our  

491

01:05:56,400 --> 01:06:04,000

audience here watching um should i sure i mean 

especially because it's such a such a concern  

492

01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:08,560

yeah and iso actually in her next collection 

that hasn't been published yet she sent me  

493

01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:16,560

um her manuscript and it has because you know she 

engages in visual poetry one of her next poems  

494

01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:25,600

is a picture of a bathroom stall with tiny holes 

drilled into the stall and then she has a footnote  

495

01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:34,240

where she sort of like that's the poem um and so 

to give context to what's happening is um cis men  

496

01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:43,840

are entering women's bathrooms and drilling holes 

tiny tiny holes into the stall to install tiny  

497

01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:50,800

cameras where they either like live stream women 

going to the restroom or like taking pictures  

498

01:06:52,160 --> 01:07:00,480

and it's so perverse but it's so prevalent 

it's like it's become one of the most  

499

01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:12,240

prevalent sex crimes in korea um and it's such 

a violation of women's privacy and also it's  

500

01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:21,040

meant to humiliate you know like the the sort of 

psychology that the psychological reasoning that  

501

01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:30,560

um articles have presented is like oh they they 

feel so disempowered by women's empowerment that  

502

01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:37,360

they have to watch women at their lowest to feel 

better about themselves so it's this whole thing  

503

01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:47,120

and if you go to like a subway like a um a metro 

restroom and you will find these tiny holes  

504

01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:55,040

and it's it's frightening you know like you 

don't know where it's like you don't know which  

505

01:07:55,040 --> 01:08:02,000

which of these holes has been um yeah yeah i've 

i've seen people carry uh little kits with uh  

506

01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:07,600

stickers right right so when you're entering 

this like this whole mark yeah it's i feel so  

507

01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:14,080

frustrated about the world because now there's 

a market for anti-worker you know hidden camera  

508

01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:22,000

technology and so women have to pay money to be 

safe against these cameras but i yeah i went on  

509

01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:28,160

a sort of with tangent so my point is cat quoting 

cat calling as a concept is less familiar in korea  

510

01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:36,080

because the men are less confrontational to 

you oh right sex crimes are hidden and yeah  

511

01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:42,640

um so i i was thinking because cat calling when 

translated literally into english like everyone  

512

01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:48,560

knows what cat calling is in english so i was 

like well you know it's not gonna have that same  

513

01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:55,040

sense of foreignness mm-hmm so i i 

was going um so i was just going to  

514

01:08:56,320 --> 01:09:01,600

uh pick out like some some of my favorite 

phrases from different poems like one of the  

515

01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:08,080

options was playing with scars which is from a 

poem in the fifth section because you know easel  

516

01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:13,200

like what is she doing if not playing with 

her own scars um but ultimately i was vetoed  

517

01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:21,600

by the publisher so we went with cat calling 

um but yeah um that's it's such a that's  

518

01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:26,720

such an um interesting point too because 

catcalling is a kind of violence that puts  

519

01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:32,800

on display in a public context it's it's about 

being subjected to harassment and violence  

520

01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:40,160

um in public where others might be present but 

whether it's about the kind of digital sex crimes  

521

01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:45,440

you're talking about or the kind of intimate 

family violence um and even violence among  

522

01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:54,400

sisters and and obviously with oppa like i mean 

all the the all those kinds of you know forms of  

523

01:09:54,400 --> 01:10:02,320

violence in in in one's proximity um that's that 

yeah that's not covered by a focus on cat calling  

524

01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:11,360

per se yeah and i wanted to mention that herself 

um i asked her um at one point because while i was  

525

01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:17,440

like oh you know like maybe it just doesn't carry 

the same valence so i asked her you know well how  

526

01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:21,840

would you feel about changing the title and she 

was very open she really liked playing with scars  

527

01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:27,760

which was very validating and she told me she 

picked cat calling not because she felt like it  

528

01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:31,920

was the repres because there's a poem called 

cat calling and she picked it as a title not  

529

01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:36,800

because she felt like that poem in particular 

was representative of the whole collection but  

530

01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:44,080

she just felt like it was catchy cat calling as a 

word is catchy because to koreans it's less of a  

531

01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:51,600

violent it carries less of a violent connotation 

they're like sure like it sounds cute that's also  

532

01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:59,280

the critique that we have in english that it's 

such um it doesn't do the you know harassment  

533

01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:08,240

justice in terms of how it sort of neutralizes 

the actual fear that people encounter right  

534

01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:14,800

yeah that's that's such an interesting so you so 

you had the executive decisions along the way to  

535

01:11:15,440 --> 01:11:21,600

make some decisions but not all uh yeah the author 

herself didn't have all the decision-making power  

536

01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:29,600

either it sounds like yeah yeah i mean i tried 

because you know she's alive and very online um  

537

01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:36,160

i i emailed her a lot about um different thoughts 

that i was having you know i i contacted her  

538

01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:40,720

less to be like oh is this the right one but i 

would sort of give her different options like  

539

01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:46,480

you know i floated different you know um titles 

like playing with scars or i don't know what else  

540

01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:51,200

i forget but i had i gave her like five different 

things and i'm like oh this is sort of and then i  

541

01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:58,400

would translate them back into korean to sort of 

convey the meaning and so she would be like oh  

542

01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:08,400

i like this and i would do that with the poems 

themselves too like um he god he who rides and  

543

01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:18,000

every man who has written and written me that poem 

um with getting the sort of the rhyme um yeah i  

544

01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:23,280

gave her like eight different options i was like 

you know these are all the different ways we can  

545

01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:31,120

um sort of recreate the cinder which is 

a homonym right for to write and also to  

546

01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:36,960

use yeah so i would always give her all these 

options and then she would give me her thoughts  

547

01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:42,000

you know she'll be like oh i like this and but 

then sometimes like a lot of the times i would  

548

01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:50,000

be in agreement with her but sometimes i 

would not agree with her you know was was  

549

01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:54,720

there yeah was there any moment in this 

collection that you thought this poem  

550

01:12:54,720 --> 01:13:00,800

meant this and then you talked to her and 

was you were off in your interpretation  

551

01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:09,040

yeah speaking of speakers um when it's not 

specified you know not spelled out in the korean  

552

01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:18,160

i uh i workshop uh some of these poems with uh 

translators who happen to be korean nationals and  

553

01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,840

they would disagree with each 

other and then i would like

554

01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:28,880

like one one person would correct me and then i 

would ask another person to make sure and then  

555

01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:35,920

they'll be like no you were right so i'd be like 

oh my god like this is no authority this speaks  

556

01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:41,200

yeah i mean this speaks to the difficulty but 

also it validates you know my my confusion and  

557

01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:47,120

then ultimately i would ask easel whole like i try 

to not ask her about like subject stuff because it  

558

01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:55,200

just seems so basic but but it's so important 

and but it is so completely changed yeah yeah  

559

01:13:55,200 --> 01:14:00,400

and i didn't realize like sometimes i'm like well 

of course it's i and then and then someone will be  

560

01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:04,960

like no it's you and then and then you will 

be like no it's i and i'm like yes i got it  

561

01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:14,080

um so yeah uh there there were maybe two instances 

where like the subject was different from what i  

562

01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:22,880

assumed yeah dummy is back yeah i think i think 

we do have to transition to q a but okay yeah  

563

01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:27,520

there's actually a question that that's sort of 

related to this about translating and the nuances  

564

01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:34,320

um sja i had a question about there are some 

words in korean that has more nuance right like

565

01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:43,680

um and so how when this gets translated into 

crunch crunch or simply knife um from shikar  

566

01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:50,800

to knife um it seems like you know that's the kind 

of nuance um that's that one struggles with it do  

567

01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:58,480

you do you remember struggling or uh or i don't 

know did did you spend any time pouring over this  

568

01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:06,880

war choice knife uh knife i think in terms of 

rhythm i didn't want to go with cooking knife  

569

01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:14,480

because sometimes kitchen knife cleaver 

they're all kinds of yeah sure yeah because  

570

01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:21,840

or like fruit knife because it's a it's a very 

cutting an apple but my my thinking is that  

571

01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:29,360

sometimes translators will get so specific 

to you know get at every nuance of the word  

572

01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:38,240

that it bogs down the poem itself and and then 

you know readers might be like of course it's a  

573

01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:45,760

kitchen knife right you know so i i went with 

knife as for paddock that was definitely something  

574

01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:52,720

that um i poured over because you know korean 

has all this ornamental yeah like it ital that  

575

01:15:53,280 --> 01:16:00,720

don't exist in english or are less developed 

than english so um everyone knows domi choi  

576

01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:08,160

the brilliant poet translator in her translations 

of kimusun she would often double verbs in that  

577

01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:16,000

same way um so i took a page from don mi and 

interesting so that's a strategy yeah yeah  

578

01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:20,320

yeah what other strategies do you have for 

folks who say you know there are just some  

579

01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:28,800

words in korean that just don't exist in english 

even in you know the idea you know it's usually  

580

01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:32,880

things like you know like i'm not let's not 

get into han or chong or things like that

581

01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:42,640

i mean these words that people often bring up as 

uh examples of the kind of korean-ness that we  

582

01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:51,840

mentioned earlier yeah how do you respond to that 

well because it's poetry i also invite people to  

583

01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:56,800

make up their own words you know crunch crunch 

is not a word that you can find in the english  

584

01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:03,360

language so you sort of frankenstein these 

different languages together to find something  

585

01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:10,000

coherent i think yeah that's brilliant nami 

did you should i ask that you ask a question  

586

01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:18,000

i use my executive privilege no actually um the 

conversation was so thought provoking but also  

587

01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:23,520

so much fun that i didn't want to disrupt you 

um i wish we can spend more time just talking  

588

01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:30,080

there are two questions however uh from the 

audience so should we go ahead should i go ahead  

589

01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:35,840

and read those questions sure uh they're actually 

by the same person it looks like yes well actually  

590

01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:41,680

two from ashley kim but let's go ahead with the 

first one i feel that the majority conservative  

591

01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:48,080

korean media constantly gaslights feminists 

do people who are part of the korean feminist  

592

01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:57,840

literature community see translation as an escape 

from that hypersensitive online mob society  

593

01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:05,360

like could the english translation possibly offer 

a way out of this you know kind of a close chamber  

594

01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,920

interesting that's interesting i 

haven't thought of it that way i  

595

01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:17,840

i because i'm facing a different audience right 

the korean feminists i mean cat calling is sold  

596

01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:24,880

in korea as well but you know i wrote this with 

people living elsewhere so i i don't know if i  

597

01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:34,000

can offer them an escape but i would love love 

if give him any sort of solace yeah yeah or  

598

01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:42,160

validation from elsewhere that then becomes 

legitimacy when right this sort of poetry is taken  

599

01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:48,240

seriously enough to be published elsewhere yeah i 

i i definitely get that sense from ethel herself  

600

01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:56,080

she she was telling me um i think a lot of 

people would be surprised to find um that she  

601

01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:05,840

lives with her parents no yeah despite all her 

sisters her sister lives in uh australia with her  

602

01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:11,360

boyfriend which is why okay anyway i'm not 

gonna go into that whole thing but she lives  

603

01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:16,560

with her parents and she told me she's like 

thank you for translating this collection  

604

01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:22,080

because now that my book is available 

in the u.s my parents finally respect me

605

01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:30,800

her parents are like oh like she's actually doing 

something with her life that kind of thing she's  

606

01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:38,800

never helped one person you had a hand in yeah 

in holding up this yeah yeah yeah her parents are  

607

01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:45,280

sort of just you know like they didn't expect 

this right when their daughter became a poet  

608

01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:52,320

um um i guess there's another question from 

s lee i'm curious what the experience was of  

609

01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:58,000

being edited by someone who's not familiar with 

korean which i presume was the case though i'm not  

610

01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:02,640

certain was there significant input 

from the publisher aside from design  

611

01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:12,720

aspects yeah um anastasia nicholas at open 

letter books my poetry editor is wonderful she  

612

01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:23,360

she had read a lot of korean feminist poetry and 

translation um by tommy choi emily changmin yoon  

613

01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:28,480

you know all these people who have come 

before me and so anastasia was actually  

614

01:20:28,480 --> 01:20:36,640

quite i i feel like i mean she might deny this 

but i think she was pretty um knowledgeable in  

615

01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:46,240

korean poetry in translation and then so she could 

sort of see how cat calling fit into the existing  

616

01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:53,920

canon i guess in translation um but on like 

a word to word level no she couldn't read the  

617

01:20:53,920 --> 01:21:00,000

korean so it was up to me to explain to her 

you know this is this there's this homonym  

618

01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:04,400

um in korean that i'm struggling to deal 

with so i would sort of spell it out for  

619

01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:09,520

her and then we would have these conversations 

and um she was really really great in terms of  

620

01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:17,760

um like being my sounding board in terms of 

like oh this this cultural context like you  

621

01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:22,800

need to spell this out a little bit more so 

yeah i i found it to be a good experience this  

622

01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:29,520

also confirms that the rumor that translation 

is not an isolated experience that you engage  

623

01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:37,440

certainly with the author the editors yeah 

the world your parents yeah my parents oh god

624

01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:41,840

the test

625

01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:52,240

yeah well and also the i noticed a pattern in a 

lot of the translators of poetry that they are  

626

01:21:52,240 --> 01:22:02,160

poets themselves are you a poet yourself oh i feel 

embarrassed because i haven't really been actively  

627

01:22:03,440 --> 01:22:11,200

publishing them but yeah i i started as a 

writer and yeah hope to pursue my own poetry  

628

01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:16,720

as well excellent i'm really looking forward 

to seeing more work um i feel like we should  

629

01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:23,040

call on victoria who was the mastermind 

behind this amazing conversation right  

630

01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:28,800

let's do that uh but let me just go ahead 

and read one more question from ashley kim  

631

01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:35,360

uh the theme of vengeance has a different register 

in korean culture and therefore korean art forms i  

632

01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:40,960

feel that that's just so perfect for feminist art 

but a different part of me feels that it can also  

633

01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:47,120

be limiting how do you see vengeance playing out 

in the literature you translate and have you ever  

634

01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:53,280

faced difficulties in communicating that intense 

form of anger to the english-speaking reader

635

01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:05,120

yeah now that you sort of position cat 

calling in the over of you know pakton  

636

01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:21,040

you know vengeance trilogy wow hmm yeah i huh let 

me think about this what a great question i think  

637

01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:28,240

it's also vengeance in the form of a certain 

violence or the expression of rage right yeah  

638

01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:36,720

i think it's slightly different because 

we now are receiving it from an entirely  

639

01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:44,240

female feminist perspective you 

know um is male of course he has um  

640

01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:52,240

lady vengeance as well with young 

a um which is great um but to have  

641

01:23:53,120 --> 01:24:04,480

a woman sort of penning all these revenge revenge 

and violence um literary violence yes yeah

642

01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:09,520

victoria

643

01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:18,640

thank you for inviting me to ask questions as 

well yeah i suppose so they touched on this  

644

01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:27,760

earlier in the discussion but um in selecting 

texts to form what essentially will become the  

645

01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:35,040

english canon of soldier the translator what do 

you what do you look what do you think you're  

646

01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:41,200

um potentially looking for in the 

future we have um your collection  

647

01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:52,160

here poems which are uh more queer uh 

romantic poetry perhaps sensual erotic poetry

648

01:24:54,800 --> 01:25:03,280

and uh we have the upcoming uh to the warm 

horizon which is a uh somewhat sci-fi futuristic  

649

01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:10,880

apocalyptic novel lesbians in the apocalypse 

wow exactly this is awesome yeah yeah i mean  

650

01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:16,880

i guess sort of tying back into the previous 

question about vengeance like this is my this is  

651

01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:22,960

the only work that i've translated that deals with 

vengeance or violence like everything else is very  

652

01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:34,160

not this energy um so you won't be typecast that's 

the translator yeah yeah you know i do really  

653

01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:42,960

think about trans translators as sort of actors as 

well um like i've talked about method translating  

654

01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:48,560

before yeah yeah but victoria 

i cut you off did you have like  

655

01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:54,880

a question no no that was the question of just 

what what are you looking forward perhaps to

656

01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:02,960

adding to our english canon of korean literature 

because um it's really with translators such  

657

01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:07,440

as yourself and anton hur and our other 

smoking tiger friends uh sophie bowman so  

658

01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:15,600

just fantastic young generation of translators 

who are broadening what we can see now  

659

01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:25,040

as korean literature in english so what are 

you looking to yeah because the first sort of i  

660

01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:30,080

anton and i have had a discussion 

about this and we sort of disagree  

661

01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:38,080

on how we define the generations of korean 

translators but i i feel like i'm sort of in  

662

01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:46,800

the 3.5 like we you and i are in the 3.5 

like i always feel sort of in between  

663

01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:54,880

third and fourth generations yeah yeah um but 

he he thinks that we're still in the third or  

664

01:26:55,680 --> 01:27:00,640

even second but anyway yeah it's like a 

whole thing maybe we'll he and i will do  

665

01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:06,560

a talk later on this but the first generation 

of korean translators i want everyone to know  

666

01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:12,640

that a lot of these were white men who 

were who came to korea as missionaries or  

667

01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:22,720

like uh un people you know so they were sort 

of approaching korea as outsiders and then  

668

01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:30,480

they went on to become academics so they had 

an interest in um replicating the korean canon  

669

01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:38,880

in translation right um a lot of male authors 

right but then uh whatever generation we're in  

670

01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:44,240

now um everyone is sort of turning like looking 

at different things like we have jack jung who's  

671

01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:50,560

you know doing the very canonical thing but he's 

sort of in the minority now for pursuing colonial  

672

01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:56,960

poets um and then we have a lot of um 

members of smoking tigers doing really really  

673

01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:06,160

cutting edge sci-fi stuff which hasn't been um 

which hadn't been translated that much um previous  

674

01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:16,000

to this decade i would say so it's really exciting 

um interesting because for me because um so  

675

01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:21,680

someone like sophie bowman you know she talked 

about her like growing up with sci-fi and her  

676

01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:29,120

long-long interest in sci-fi like i have no desire 

to compete with a true sci-fi fan you know i think  

677

01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:37,520

it's great that we all have our sort of niches 

and passions so mine mine i guess is like queer  

678

01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:47,440

queer stuff kristoff hopefully i i've i've been 

noticing more non-binary poets as well so that  

679

01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:53,920

would be interesting to translate but right now 

my next um the next project that i've decided on  

680

01:28:54,640 --> 01:29:01,360

i hope i could talk about it i don't see 

why not um is a novel by tongsera sarang  

681

01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:07,920

who is the author of the school nurse files i 

don't know if people have seen the netflix show um

682

01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:21,040

like i like to use the word shimmy she 

shimmies between these uh the literary  

683

01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:28,240

very literary fiction and sort of wacky 

sci-fi world and she has um a novel called  

684

01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:36,720

that was a bestseller last year it was um 

picked as like the number one book of 2020  

685

01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:44,080

and that is about a family who um celebrates their  

686

01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:51,840

mother slash grandmother's chez 10th anniversary 

chez in hawaii so it's about how a family  

687

01:29:53,440 --> 01:30:04,400

subverts the traditional expectations of mourning 

ceremonies you know ancestral rights by going to  

688

01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:14,240

hawaii and sort of um thinking about lineage in 

a new way um there's i'm not doing a great job  

689

01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:21,760

explaining this right now um it is still early 

in the morning for me and now you blame the time  

690

01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:27,680

now i blame the time but um it's like it's 

not just some like empty like oh they go on  

691

01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:35,120

an island vacation like they go to hawaii and then 

realize that they're part of the problem and you  

692

01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:41,680

know how tourism affects the environment is like 

a staunch environmentalist so she thinks about  

693

01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:49,120

how um she thinks about ecologism she thinks 

about indigenous sovereignty like there is like a  

694

01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:56,720

chapter dedicated to like the indigenous people of 

hawaii so yeah it's it's a really interesting book  

695

01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:04,480

in terms of how she uses tachezah as like a 

plot point but then the cesar is like totally  

696

01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:10,160

different from what we expect a korean chesa to 

look like no that's so interesting especially in  

697

01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:16,400

an indigenous indigenous context and the yeah the 

yeah the conjuring of ancestors i i can see this  

698

01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:21,920

being an amazing connection so what i'm hearing 

is that you don't care much about the sort of the  

699

01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:27,280

generational genealogy like in the selection 

process do you feel pressured to like i mean  

700

01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:34,480

does anybody tell you like you can't do this you 

have to do this first oh uh i feel like that was  

701

01:31:34,480 --> 01:31:43,120

more of an issue when i was in school maybe but 

then now i'm a freelancer so i'm so just i mean  

702

01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:51,440

for better or worse i'm so disconnected from those 

people so yeah yeah i have fewer naysayers um  

703

01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:59,920

yeah i guess what i'm what i'm hearing for 

myself is i'd like to translate different  

704

01:31:59,920 --> 01:32:08,320

authors who redefine korean-ness now this is so 

exciting i am just so i i'm yeah i'm going to  

705

01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:15,120

be thinking about this for for a very long time 

it's one of the most eye-opening and enjoyable um  

706

01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:20,400

conversations experiences this whole 

year yeah it was so nice to meet you and  

707

01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:25,840

talk about me and everything 

oh and there's so much more

708

01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:33,680

i can i can only concur with what just judy said 

and we're going to have to have you back sometime  

709

01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:41,680

very soon i would love to personally yes in 

person definitely um and to continue to talk about  

710

01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:49,440

all the just very thought-provoking um 

subjects that we've covered so far um the um  

711

01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:57,760

we are hoping the center for korean studies is 

hoping to continue with this series of kwajang  

712

01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:03,760

and with the obviously the help 

of victoria and all other people

713

01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:15,280

sometime in the fall will be our third event of 

this series uh series um so i'd like to thank you  

714

01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:27,040

um so there judy and victoria all so very much for 

this wonderful event and such a fun event actually  

715

01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:38,000

it's one of the few times it was so fun to be 

part of um yeah yes so thank you so very much once  

716

01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:45,200

again and for those of you whose questions have 

not been answered i am sorry about that uh perhaps  

717

01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:53,120

so they will be open to getting questions uh 

in person sometime yeah uh after the event  

718

01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:58,400

um do you have a website actually there was a 

question about sharing your work yes oh yeah i  

719

01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:04,960

saw that too from julie kim um i haven't posted 

my poetry they live on very private google docs

720

01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:14,240

um but i do have a website 

it's um smokingtigers.com  

721

01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:19,600

i think and then i have uh twitter sojiflux  

722

01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:27,600

so you can probably dm me your questions if 

they're urgent great thank you so much um thank  

723

01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:35,600

you victoria and uh thank you so much once again 

all three of you uh we would probably have to uh  

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end our event today uh and for those of you again 

who would like to look up the the website of the  

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center for korean studies for future events 

and also possibly donate to our fundraising  

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so that we will be able to continue with 

this kind of program in the future please uh  

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go take a look at this john duncan fellowship 

in korean studies john duncan is the  

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former director of the center for korean studies  

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so once again thank you and good night um 

thank you thank you so much everyone bye-bye