Kal Raustiala 0:02

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome. I'm Kal Raustiala, director of the Burkle Center for International Relations at UCLA. And it's my pleasure to welcome you back to another one of our occasional zoom talk session's today. As you know, we have a very special guest who I'll introduce in a moment, Lieutenant Governor Eleni Kounalakis. And we will use our usual format for today's event, which will follow an introduction by me, then to the Lieutenant Governor. She will speak for a few minutes and then she and I will then have a conversation about California's international engagements. And then I'm going to open it up to questions from all of you, which I will read, and she will answer and so I encourage you to please do send in questions using the q&a feature, send them when you can starting now and throughout the talk as you like, and we'll field those and we'll wrap it in about one hour. So let me introduce our special guest. It's really an honor to have Lieutenant Governor Kounalakis with us. She is the fiftieth Lieutenant Governor of the State of California, the first female Lieutenant Governor of the State of California. She has a career in international affairs, previously has been Ambassador to Hungary under President Obama. And so she, in addition to many other international activities she's done over the years, she came into this position with a fair bit of understanding about diplomacy and how America's engagement with the world works. And she's continued to play that role in her current position as Lieutenant Governor where she has really been leading California's efforts overseas and vis-à-vis other jurisdictions. And that will be our topic for today. So with that, I'm going to turn the microphone and the screen over to the Lieutenant Governor. Please join me in welcoming Lieutenant Governor Eleni Kounalakis.

Eleni Kounalakis 1:57

Well, thank you very much Kal. Thank you, Professor Raustiala. It's great to be here with you and everyone at UCLA at the Burkle Center. As you know, I'm a big fan of UCLA, as part of my, part of my responsibility as Lieutenant Governor is sitting on the Board of Regents of the University of California. And I miss being at UCLA. We would have meetings down there so it's great to be with the community and supporters, students and faculty of the Burkle Center, and I look forward to a time when we can all be back together in person. So as Kal mentioned, as a former United States Ambassador, I came into my position of Lieutenant Governor with a very different background than anyone else who has served in this position or really anyone else I think that's ever served in a statewide office in the State of California. I came into it as a seasoned diplomat, and a former US Ambassador. So the Governor asked if I could continue to work in that way at the subnational level, as his representative and California's representative for international affairs and trade. So just a few weeks after we both were sworn in to our respective new jobs, he signed an executive order and gave me this portfolio. And I will say it's been great to partner with the Governor in this way, and unique, really, there's never been anything quite like it. And I think it's really a testament to the fact that Governor Newsom is always eager to put people to work if he feels that someone can get out there and do something and in a way that is consistent with mutual goals and his vision for the State of California, which he often says and I'm sure many of you have heard, he views this state as a nation state. And we can talk a little bit more about that maybe later Kal. But over the course of the last year and a half now, our work together and my leadership, my office, his leadership in this space of International Affairs and Trade has pretty much centered on three kind of organizing priorities. The first one, of course, is trade itself. California going into this pandemic, was the fifth largest economy in the world, we're determined to come out of this crisis, if not the fifth largest, maybe even doing better. But trade is extremely important to us in our state. In fact, foreign direct investment supports one out of five jobs in our state, including about 200,000 jobs in agriculture and two-way trade between California and other countries in the world totaled about $600 billion. So that is an obvious area of engagement for us. And though of course, we don't set trade policy for ourselves, the federal government does that. There is a lot that we can do with the sub national level to promote trade, and to deepen our relationships with our trading partners. The second area that has been a priority for us is in the area of immigration, again, an area where we do not set our own trade policy that happens at the federal government. But we are so disproportionately affected by immigration policy, that we felt it's very important that we engage. And then of course, our voices heard, California is 27% foreign born. And we make the clear connection between the fact that we are a state of immigrants and a nation of immigrants, and that this has impacted both the strength and diversity of our state, and enrich the culture of our state, and also led to us being a place of extraordinary innovation. And that has directly led to the strength of our economy. The third area that we are very focused on and in some ways, this is probably the one where we feel that we have both the most latitude to engage at the sub national level. But also, there really is this ongoing precedent and during the current administration in Washington, really a need, and that is in the area of combating climate change. So even before this year's fires, we have seen the impact of climate change in the persistent droughts and the changing the changing temperature that has affected our ecosystems. And then of course, this year's fires which have been already absolutely devastating, and five of the six largest wildfires in California history have happened already this year. So those are the three areas that we are focused the most on. And again, in our Q&A, or discussion Kal, we can maybe go into those a little bit more. So the other thing that we do in the state, of course, we have a very large diplomatic presence here, consuls general across the state concentrated primarily in the Los Angeles area, in the San Francisco Bay Area. But the consular corps is always eager to engage with us at the state level. And frankly, we felt that that work had been done, not as robust as it as it could be, and should be. So this administration in our partnership, has really led to California, rolling out the red carpet, and ensuring that our foreign partners know that we are here that we are eager to engage. And we really have ramped up our engagement with the diplomatic corps and our international dialogue through the presence of the console's general here in the state. And then I thought it might be useful just at the top of this to say a word about COVID. And the impact of COVID on California. I know it is no small thing, that California was the first state in the country to issue a statewide stay at home order. It just underscores the fact that leadership here, listens to scientists, listens to public health officers. And as soon as it was made evident to us, that COVID was as much of a threat to the health and welfare of our people as they knew it was, we did not hesitate to issue that stay at home order on it mostly what happened in those early months from March forward, and bought us time, time to expand our capacity in our hospitals, time to engage again at the sub national level with international partners, especially China, around acquisition of PPE, which California was arguably the most successful state in the country to be able to acquire the necessary equipment, not just for us, but frankly, to the degree that the governor was able to help other states as a result of his success in acquiring PPE that was needed, not just by us, but you know, by everyone. And it also allowed for time for research hospitals are incredible biotech industry to get to work on therapies. For those of you don't know remdesivir, which so far is one of the very most effective therapies that are being used to treat patients was developed by Gilead, which is a California company. And our University of California hospitals were engaged in trials and in treating patients with that important therapy. The other thing, of course, is we've ramped up our testing significantly. And now after a summer surge, very unfortunate summer surge, we have expanded public awareness around wearing masks, washing hands and social distancing. So that we have flattened the curve again, positivity rate, 14 day positivity rate is back down to 2.8%. Actually, that's even lower than we've had from the very beginning. And we're reopening again, but again, with this awareness of the importance of the protocols in place. And now of course, we have to focus on doing the best we possibly can to deal with this significant economic crisis that COVID has brought on. Good news is that we have seen numbers unemployment numbers, for August, dropping from the height of over 13% unemployment now down to around 11%. Still terrible for our State. But showing that our dimmer switch approach to reopening is having a positive impact. And the more that we are able to safely bring back jobs, the more that we will be able to drive down that unemployment rate even more. Meanwhile, we are continuing to face challenges to our budget. The from the governor's budget January to the May revise the legislature and the governor and needed to fill a $54 billion budget hole. But going into this crisis, our economy was so strong, we had a surplus and a rainy day fund, which have allowed us to weather the storm. But again, significant challenges ahead, we have nine and a half million people on unemployment in the state of California, we have had a tourist industry that is really been just decimated. Tourism spending is expected to drop by half in 2022, down to about 75. Well, about half of what it was year on year. And we're looking at about 600,000 jobs lost in the tourism sector as a result of COVID-19. This has a big impact on our cities and our counties and our local government not having access to those hotel tax dollars that are so important. So we're continuing as a state to urge the federal government for an additional package, economic stimulus package in order to be able to help our cities and counties. And then of course, the governor's task force for the recovery is something that I'm very honored, he asked me to serve on some of the most high-level volunteers I've certainly ever worked with, including Tim Cook of apple and Janet Yellen and so many other Californians that rose to the occasion and put themselves forward to help support the governor in this state in our recovery. So that's a little bit about the view from the LGs office, kind of in the context of the work that we do in our international engagement. And so Kal, I look forward to our conversation.

Kal Raustiala 14:08

Great, thank you so much Lieutenant Governor, that's a terrific overview and start. There's a lot we can talk about. And I'm sure we will cover a lot. So one thing I should just clarify for people who maybe aren't familiar with California's structure is that while you work very closely with Governor Newsom, the two of you did not run as a ticket. That's not our, our way. It's actually a separate thing. And in the past, there have sometimes been lieutenant governors who were let's say adverse to governor's and vice versa. That's luckily not our situation now, and you seem to have a good working relationship with him.

Eleni Kounalakis 14:43

It is it is a new model, but you know, how people in the state want to see their elected officials working together for their benefit. And I've known the Governor for a very long time. I always knew he'd be Governor. I never thought that I would be his Lieutenant Governor. But today, we do have a good working relationship in these areas. And, and it's great because as I said, I think what people out there really want more than anything is to see their elected officials working for them.

Kal Raustiala 15:12

Absolutely. So let's turn to some of the things that you mentioned in your opening remarks. And maybe we could start with climate change, because I think given the situation with fires that you mentioned, and we're all very aware of climates on everyone's mind in California. So in terms of what California can do, one of the things that's going to run through our conversation today is the tension between what the federal government can do, and has maybe unique abilities to do and what we can do as a state. Climate change is one of the areas where we have really been a path breaking state and a pacesetter. many jurisdictions around the world look to us, and we in turn, cooperate with them. And so I'm curious going forward, what are the steps that you see us taking with climate given in particular the lack of forward motion in Washington, so what can we expect to see?

Eleni Kounalakis 16:03

So there's a lot that we have been able to do over the last four years and and, you know, this is a bipartisan issue for most Californians, Arnold Schwarzenegger was actually the one who really took those first steps to make climate change a priority for the state, of course, Jerry Brown built on that, and Governor Newsom as well. But we have very ambitious goals, our 2045 goals to be carbon neutral, are very ambitious. And we also have to have a pathway to get there. It's one thing to say, Okay, this is our goal for 2045. That's 25 years away. Now everybody can put it on their resume that they voted for it. And that's the end of the story. No, no, we we are obligated to show a pathway to get there and to take steps along the way. So for those of you who are watching last week, during climate week, hopefully you saw the governor's executive order that mandates that by 2035, all new cars in the state of California that are sold here must be zero emission vehicles. It is a very, very big deal. But we also know that the industry is ready for it. We have a big part of the industry here in California, we have 34 companies manufacturing or engaged in the space of electric vehicles. Electric vehicles are our number, our number two export out of the State of California, thank you Tesla. But that's a very big thing. We have more than half a million electric vehicles already on the road. And we're just getting started. So so we know the technology is there, we know that the cost is becoming more and more efficient all the time. Of course, we're going to have to rely on consumers to get behind the wheel of these and realize they're great. And I think that it's critically important that people know that we cannot get to our 2045 goals of being carbon neutral, unless we deal with the fact that 41% of our greenhouse gas emissions in the state of California, come from passenger vehicles, 41% of our greenhouse gas emissions in California, come from passenger vehicles. So it has to be done, or we won't meet those goals. And I'll tell you with someone who's been driving at hybrids and Zevs now for the last 18 years, I just really encourage everyone to go get behind the wheel of one. They're not from Mars, they're great cars. And I'll tell you my husband got a Tesla last year. And I just think it's the most incredibly fun car to drive. But you know, I had a Honda hybrid for a long time. That was a great car. So this is it. It's real. We have to leave combustion engines in the past. And I think they should have been left in the 20th century entirely. But certainly it's time to get serious about this and make sure the transition moves forward. Now there are other things as well. And you talked about this tension between the federal government and the state government. Right now, the federal government is trying to direct the United States out of the Paris Accords, California squarely in them. We are working with countries around the world. We're working with subnational governments throughout the world, including something called the Under2 Coalition, which was founded between California and the region of Baden-Wurttemberg in Germany several years ago. There are now hundreds of subnational governments that are members of this commitment to doing what it takes to keep warming below two degrees on the planet. And that I think has been a very useful form of sub national engagement as well of course is working towards combating climate change. And then the final thing I'll say about this space that makes California so special is our ability to innovate. You know, we have our national laboratories, we have the private sector, and our other universities, all looking at this very seriously. So whether it comes to more efficiencies, better battery technology, and battery storage, or whether it goes to the whole issue of carbon capture, that's going to be so important. And doing it through better farming techniques we have, we have pilot experiments going on all over the state around how to use how to modify our farming in a way that allows for carbon capture, as well as things being done in labs all over the state to find new ways, new kinds of scrubbers to be able to capture carbon before it gets released in the atmosphere. So there's a lot of really exciting things happening. All squarely puts California in a global leadership position in the area of combating climate change. And as you say, nobody knows the devastation of climate change more than the people of California do. And no more than right now. 3% of our state has burned this fire season alone. So it's on us and we're working hard to continue to live up to what we need to do to meet this moment, as the governor says.

Kal Raustiala 21:31

Great, great. So I can see already in the Q&A, we're going to have some questions about California as international agreements and how they relate to the climate. So I may save some of that for later. But you mentioned at the end about innovation, just a follow up briefly, It's often said that we are the fifth largest economy, you noted that which gives us an incredible market power as the example of the recent executive order shows, but we also have this innovative capacity, do you see those as equally significant for our kind of ability to combat climate change? Both are huge market, but then our unparalleled technological infrastructure?

Eleni Kounalakis 22:10

No question about it. You know, just to give an example of this, I have a friend who, before the 2016 election, she manufactures cleaning products that are all natural. And she and the advocacy groups she belongs to have been trying to get Congress to pass a law requiring that big companies, Clorox and other companies producing cleaners, house cleaners, had to list their ingredients. And after the election of 2016, they were like well, forget it, we're never going to get anywhere now with Washington. So they turn their attention to California. And within about six months, they had a bill, the bill was passed and signed. And starting in January, I believe it's January of this year, that requirement will go into effect. I'm a little rusty on the facts. I haven't thought about this for a while. But it's a really good example, to help people understand that when a requirement like that happens in California, the companies that produce those products, they're not going to make different labeling for California than the rest of the country. So instead of going to Washington to a to push that requirement, you could come to California have it done here, because we are the largest consumer market in the country. If it happens here, it's going to roll over into other parts of the country. And so that's true for a lot of things. And our emission standards are absolutely no exception. And the other thing is that we've had a really great reception. So, Volkswagen, BMW, Honda, and Ford have all signed bilateral agreements with the state of California to comply with our emission standards. And those goals, at the same time as the federal government is trying to undermine California's ability to set those standards. And when you start having that kind of ability to impact the market. And again, you have a population that is really highly sensitive to climate change and environmental issues. We can do a lot to set the standards for not just the country but for the world.

Kal Raustiala 24:44

You know, there's a whole line of academic research about the California fact that exact mechanism that you described, and it is really powerful. So let me turn to immigration, which you also brought up and you talked about how over a quarter Californians are immigrants. I think it's maybe 50% have an immigrant parent, I believe you and I, maybe examples of that. And, you know, that makes us probably the most multicultural and immigrant base state in the union. And given our vast size, obviously, we have a tremendous number of immigrants. And that's a huge part of our vitality. So here, again, we have the same challenge with the federal government in this administration, we know there's incredible antipathy towards immigration towards, towards anyone really coming from the outside. That's a tremendous implications for California. So what can we do about that, within the bounds of the constitutional system we live under what are the concrete things that we can actually employ to keep California as vibrant as it is?

Eleni Kounalakis 25:50

So first of all, I think it's really important to acknowledge that there is this connection between the success of our state economically, and the fact that we are a haven for people wanting to come here to live a better life or to live their dreams. And the more that we can talk about that, the more that we can push back against the kind of xenophobia that Donald Trump perpetrates every day, and we have to call it out and call it what it is. And use California as you know, this is a I'm not trying to be political here, just a straight on debate over whether or not immigration is good or bad. California is a really important example of that. And by the way, that used to be an example that is a former United States ambassador that I used in the world, but not the fill in the blank of it's been, you know, California is a state of immigrants. But then the United States is a nation of immigrants. And we attribute the strength of our of our country to that fact, a couple of other statistics to add the ones that you raised, we have 3.3 million green card holders in this state right now. And we are also the number one state in terms of how many people here are on H-1B, so this is huge for us. The other thing, the other statistic, I think it's important for people to know,

Kal Raustiala 27:13

yeah, just the H-1B program for a moment, just so people understand what that is.

Eleni Kounalakis 27:19

Alright, so that is a visa to nonresident, a non-immigration visa, that allows people to come here to work in a professional capacity and, and they're very difficult to get, and you need to be sponsored by a company. But when you think about folks coming from around the world to work in technology, the very, very valuable employees in Silicon Valley and other technology firms, but aerospace, across the board. Those are typically the kinds of visas that people are on. And by the way, it's been a program that's been under siege by the Trump administration. So the other thing that I think is important for people to know is that we have a very large percentage of our society and our workforce that's here and they are undocumented, it is estimated that eight to 10% of the California workforce is undocumented. We need to protect our people. And there are realities of who our people are. And that's why if you are undocumented in California, you can still go to school, you can still get a COVID test, you can still drive a car, you know, we do not vilify or turn our backs, on people who are here at risk, who are undocumented. And frankly, it's because we have to recognize that this situation has happened over the course of many, many years of wanting people to come here and work. You know, it's evolved. And these are the facts on the ground, and treating our undocumented Californians with respect, recognizing how many people I'm not just talking about dreamers, I'm talking about their parents. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a close family, friend or person in their life, whether they know it or not, who either themselves is undocumented or is related to someone and, you know, again, people there are, there are so many folks here who are married to citizens who have children, grown children who are citizens, but we haven't fixed this at the federal level. And we really have to because the opportunity for people to divide us over a situation that has evolved over decades and brought us to the circumstance that we are right now. It is not fair to simply separate people out and say, you know, you're breaking the line, and you shouldn't be here, because it's a lot more complicated than that for our state.

Kal Raustiala 30:31

It is interesting how we've come a long way in California for some people who may be younger watching this may not realize in the early 90s, California had a very different approach to immigration. And that, you know, that's been a tremendous change that we've seen over the decades, certainly for the better. So let me ask you about China, which is probably the single biggest and most complex international issue we face both as a state and as a nation. And what's interesting about China today is it's one of the few areas that's got a certain degree of bipartisan consensus in Washington, that China is a problem. geo, geopolitically, Maryland, militarily, economically, we're concerned about intellectual property. We're concerned about many aspects of China, in Washington today, Republicans and Democrats see it somewhat differently. But they both increasingly see China as problematic. And that's been going on for years. On the other hand, China is incredibly significant for our economy, and incredibly significant for California in particular. So you know, I'm curious what you see as the future of our relationship with China, we are a Pacific facing state, we are always going to have a close tie to Asia, we've had that for a long time. China's obviously the single biggest nation, single biggest economy that we deal with. So what can we expect in the coming years? And what should it look like that relationship?

Eleni Kounalakis 32:03

So first of all, you're absolutely right. Kalyn, I know you live this every day, California is on the Pacific Rim. And we have a very large percentage of our people of our population in California are a Chinese American. And I, our economy has been very largely reliant on bilateral trade. And the activity in our ports is has also been largely driven by being a destination location for goods coming from China into the United States. So we have a lot on the line. And let me just start by, you know, the way you started the question, which is that in Washington, there's bipartisan recognition of challenges with China, and the way that, that I've heard it out of this administration, referred to as the relationship now being one of strategic competitiveness. And I think that we have turned a page, I think that's absolutely clear. But I don't think it's because people woke up one day and said, we have a problem with China. I think it's because I in the Obama administration, recognition that there was a problem with China led to what he called the pivot to Asia, and the negotiations around the Trans Pacific Partnership, and using diplomacy to try to establish the United States leadership and the architecture of trade. In Asia. There was a strategy there that strategy was replaced with Donald Trump's which, you know, I have to say the premise of it, which is that China has been violating section 301 of, of our trade laws. I in some of the things you talked about, right intellectual property, anti-competitive behavior, by triggering that, that led to the escalation of tariffs. Now, what concerns me, and what I think was a mistake in this administration's engagement with China is that they started down the road of the 301 violations and the tariffs dispute and the escalation of tariffs, which they certainly were justified in doing, but without necessarily a plan to get results from China. You Institute. The tariffs, we pay the price of the tariffs, the average American household is paying $2,000 a year increase in the cost of goods as a result of those tariffs. The question Jim is what have we gotten for it? And I would argue we've gotten nothing from China, China is no less anti-competitive, no less likely to, to steal intellectual property or demand tech transfer in order to do business there. All it's gotten us as more expensive goods and increased over hostilities, what we need is a cohesive policy to deal with China in a way that will not be so one sided in terms of costing us for what to make a point. So that is my criticism. And I think that, again, you know, you can't back seat drive international relations, it has to happen out of Washington, DC. But one of the things that I've heard many times out here in California is that we're just not as xenophobic as the eastern seaboard, probably because we have so much diversity in this state, probably because we have such a deep trade relationship, probably because we are on the Pacific Rim. And I think it's a good thing that California has posture around this is is not to be xenophobe, but rather to try to keep good relations, I that that can only help over time. Now, that doesn't mean that we are susceptible to be being peeled off from us leadership that that certainly, you know, again, I'm very sensitive to that, as someone who represented the United States we are, we are the United States of America. But, but at the same time, having the ability to play a role to participate in partner where we can to keep those person to person relationship strong again, whether it's family or business, or frankly, the extraordinary exchange that we have with our students, which mostly has been extremely beneficial for mutual understanding, we should continue to do so. So that is why by the way, I went to China, I in 2019, right after I was sworn in not too long after I went for a Belton road conference, I worked with the China desk at the State Department. Before I went, I went to the US embassy in Beijing. And I kept a very narrow focus on urging China's California can to, to invest in projects in a way to combat climate change and recognize the importance of combating climate change. But there is a way to speak and to engage around our priorities without being subversive. And that is very much what we have done over the last four years. I think certainly, I can say with the last two years I when I've been in office, but there's no question that whoever the next president is, um, there's a lot of work that's going to need to be done in this new environment. And it is going to require a great deal of comprehensive diplomatic work. And, and I think we're all looking hopefully, to a future where we can work through some of these very, very difficult differences and different viewpoints that we have with China.

Kal Raustiala 38:42

I agree. I mean, this is a really complicated issue. And I think the next President will have to grow with this. And certainly, I'm not going to defend the Trump administration's stance on this, I think your criticisms are really apt. That said, it's not an easy, it's not an easy question to answer, what our approach should be what our approaches estate should be. Let me just ask one quick follow up before we go to audience questions on that. One thing we didn't talk about was human rights. And China is an example where we've seen a lot of heat come down, most recently towards Hollywood with regard to collaboration with Chinese government entities, let's say and Xinjiang and elsewhere, from the right, but also sometimes from the left. And so it's an interesting example, again, where you see a certain amount of bipartisan agreement, or let's say across the political spectrum agreement, that China has serious human rights problems that we should address in some way The problem is in what way. So is that something that we as a state should be weighing in on or is this something where it's really a national issue, and California doesn't have a stance?

Eleni Kounalakis 39:52

You know, it's a very difficult issue. My view and this is the piece I think that is not difficult at all, is that elected leaders, and I certainly take this upon myself independent of anybody as separately elected, you know, from the Governor, anybody else. Our values should always be, and my values certainly are, to promote human rights, and to fight human rights abuses around the world, to condemn them, and to recognize that we should not be benefiting, whether it's through cheap goods or through great movies, from the exploitation or the violation of people's basic human rights in China or anywhere else. I think that it is a very different thing for Hollywood to have to confront these things. Typically, people in, in private business are out there just operating in private business, and it is up to the federal government, certainly when it comes to our policies of, of what Hollywood or the garment industry or any other industry should be doing. But I think that it's also up to us, in our communities, as civil society leaders to increase the awareness of the kinds of things that are happening, but I because I think that if executives are making decisions, and they kind of know there's something going on with the Uyghurs, but they don't really know why this isn't okay. It's up to community leaders and civil society leaders and, and professors and human rights advocates to make sure that they do know, in advance and that is something I think that California does well but needs to do more of in light, in light of the growing kinds of human rights abuses that we're seeing around the world, whether it's in, whether it's in China or anywhere else.

Kal Raustiala 42:10

Great, fantastic. So let me turn to questions. You have a lot of questions that have come in some directly related to topics we talked about. So let me start with one on climate change. So the question is, California's climate agreement with Canadian provinces contradicts President Trump's climate change policy. Is it appropriate for states to engage in foreign agreements that contradict federal government policy?

Eleni Kounalakis 42:41

I mean, there's, if something is conflicting legally, then it's different than if it's differing in terms of policy. So Donald Trump is pulling back from the Paris Climate accord, California has the right to be able to stay in based on our ability to control our emissions. One of the other things, then the question might be referring to the cap and trade agreement we have with Canada that allows them to be part of our cap and trade program. And again, here, the federal government has tried to throw a wrench into that. We have lots of lawsuits going on between California and the Trump administration right now. And this is one area as well. But again, we are going to continue to fight for our ability to include Canada, in that agreement. So I guess it's two questions, while on the one hand, you know, if there is a legal difference, then the courts will decide whether or not we have the right to do what we're doing. But in terms of having a policy difference, we're not the only one, governors across the country, have stood up and said, we have the legal right to stay within Paris, in terms of complying with the goals and practicing the kinds of advances and reductions in emissions to do so. And so we will, but I will tell you, it doesn't feel good. I would much much, much rather, the federal government reflected the science of the matter. And that we could get back into the Paris Climate accord, which by the way, the United States basically wrote and championed, along with partners around the world. And so that's a that's kind of the state of play.

Kal Raustiala 44:45

Great. Okay, so next question. What is your current conversation with your foreign counterparts about the state of affairs in the US and the role they would like to see California play? So I guess when you meet with other officials from other subnational or national jurisdictions what are you hearing?

Eleni Kounalakis 45:03

Um, you know, again, I don't a lot of different opinions about a lot of different things out there in my circles, with diplomats who I know from having served in our diplomatic corps, but also in my work before and after, and people want to see a stable and strong United States, people want to see a united states that works hard to ensure stability and security in the world. We are the most powerful country in terms of our military, and we are the largest economy. And even though we may not be on the same white horses, we were in the post-World War II environment, and largely because of Iraq and some of those other things. We are still seeing as what Ronald Reagan called that. That was it the golden shining, shining? Thank you. Yeah, mining city on the hill. And, and that is a roll that most of the diplomats were bipartisan themselves, want to see the United States continue to occupy Donald Trump's America First, America First, may sound good two people who are struggling in parts of the country that have been economically hurt. But in my opinion, the number one way that we protect the United States is by doing what we can do to keep stability globally. That is key. For us to be safe at home. It is extremely important that military conflicts and hot conflicts in the world are kept to a minimum. And that I think, is what has been lost by this administration, in their dealings with NATO and other partners. And in there, you know, bullying and me first and me only, and I'm the most important, um, you know, that's really what's been lost is the recognition that the safer the world the safer America.

Kal Raustiala 47:39

So next question is actually about the University of California. So how can universities like UCLA help California is international relations efforts? Is there anything you think we need to do differently? And I guess the we in that question might be UCLA, or might be the UC or Cal State Systems,

Eleni Kounalakis 47:56

in general. Um, so one of the things that I often kind of noticed that the East Coast has so many international think tanks, so much international activity. And that's really why the Burkle Center is so important, because you do create a presence here in California, working on and thinking about international relations. And, and so more just more of what you're doing more I recruiting of professors, both to UCLA into other parts of the UC system, more activity and organizing of former diplomats who can engage in track to more emphasis, I personally believe, on understanding examining and engaging in issues related to the Pacific Rim because of the fact that we are on the Pacific Rim. That is the investment that I would like to see, I we are an important voice on the world stage. And we have an important geographical location in terms of trade. And as a profile of his state, with 27% of our Californians foreign born. All of this really gives us a very important role to play. So the more that our universities are investing in organizing around studying and focused on international relations, the more that will help us at the state level, but frankly, the more that it will help leaders at the federal level understand the region of the Pacific Rim by having California really out front and center in terms of our expertise.

Kal Raustiala 49:37

You won't be surprised that I'm completely supportive of that. And I think we I think we really do lock. You know, I've seen so many people, as you have, I'm sure come back from very interesting and important careers globally. In Washington, they come back to California, they're looking for some way to keep using their expertise. We don't really have the infrastructure for that the think tanks are not here as you see Our universities personally Can I think can do more. So I think that's a terrific idea.

Eleni Kounalakis 50:05

Take me on the road Kal.

Kal Raustiala 50:08

Fantastic. Well, we will talk about that after this. So this questions a little off beat, I don't even know exactly what they're referring to. But you may so the question is, I've been seeing signs for the State of Jefferson, all over northern California and Southern Oregon and more every time I visit, what's going on with that? Are you familiar with that?

Eleni Kounalakis 50:30

Double X, “X” “X”, it stands for being double crossed. There are people up in Northern California, who want to be their own state, and this has been going on for some time. And you guys, a lot of you are down in Southern California. There are 58 counties in California, the 13 Northern most contiguous counties comprise almost one third of our land area at about 3% of our population. It is a very large rural area. And not surprisingly, it is very conservative. And their representation as a result is not always - and this is something that I've talked about quite a bit when I go up there, they elect representatives who are in the minority in Sacramento and their voices and always heard, and there are really important bipartisan issues related to that place. Certainly, wildfire response is one of them. But another thing is access to broadband. And it's really important that we do more to bring broadband infrastructure up to the northern part of the state for education for telehealth, for economic development. But meanwhile, they do have some very different ideas. And there is this movement that, again, has been going on for a long time, around breaking off and becoming the 51st. The State of Jefferson, and it has these roots and legend that they were promised their own state, but they were “XX”- double crossed. So look, a lot of really good people up in the north, it is really important to listen to those voices, too, and hear what their grievances are. It makes us a better, more cohesive state. But you know, that happens. Yeah, that's real.

Kal Raustiala 52:42

Just to kind of follow up on that for a second. It is interesting. You refer to California as a nation state, the governor has used that phrase, I think Jerry Brown used that phrase. We are enormous within the context of the US. And we have the constant problem of lack of representation in Washington as a result, certainly at the level of a senator, we have two senators, there are states that are miniscule, they would be a little counties here that have two senators. And yet economically, we have all this power. How is there any way to imagine ever addressing that kind of that fundamental challenge that we're so big within the US? And yet we seem to

Eleni Kounalakis 53:22

honestly right now, we are so underrepresented, and it is harming the tariffs dispute with China that has disproportionately impacted our economy. Immigration policies are disproportionately impacting us. The doing away with the state and local tax deduction. The salt deductions are devastating, devastating to us in California. And Trump did it with one fell swoop with no other purpose than anyone can divine. Other than that he wanted to punish California and, and, and New York, that of course, have the, you know, benefited the most from the salt deductions. These things are very, very serious. And if we don't have a Washington that looks to California and recognizes what's good for California is good for the nation, when we are a net donor in terms of our taxes, when we have the largest pork complex when we are the largest market in the United States, when we are the center of innovation in technology and so many other areas. If they don't if they are not careful in Policymaking in Washington, to think about the impact of California and recognize we don't want to harm the economic engine that drives California. It is the economic engine that helps drive the whole country. Instead we have someone who thinks just the opposite. They don't like me so I'm going to go after them. I mean, this is this is a terrible situation to In. So my view is Kal, let's solve that problem first. And then let's look at these other questions of what representation looks like whether it's honestly the this incredibly antiquated. And, to my mind, thoroughly unfair issue of the, of the electoral college, I, you know, or other things as well but, but I also will tell you this I am a bit of a traditionalist in some ways. It is important that for democracy, that institutions that have served us well are maintained, strengthened and modified as needed. But whereas there may be some things like the electoral college that really are worth reexamining and possibly an I believe changed. There are other things that we want to be careful I in in order to ensure that we don't give up. You know, we don't take sledgehammers to institutions when they're broken, but rather, we work together in as much of a bipartisan way as possible to fix them.

Kal Raustiala 56:22

That would be great. Well, thank you, Lieutenant Governor for coming on. We're at the end of our hour, but I really want to express my appreciation for you for doing this. And I know everyone in the audience enjoyed it. So please join us again.

Eleni Kounalakis 56:34

Thank you so much. It's great to be with you. I can't wait to be back on the UCLA campus as soon as we're through this really challenging difficult time. I miss it.

Kal Raustiala 56:47

Right. We look forward to welcoming to you. Okay, thank you. Take care, everyone.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai